CZ 455 American or Kimber HS?

[kevoski]

I have been shooting a Kimber HS for several years. I have not done any work to the rifle. I have been happy with the overall performance but I would like to try something new.

I have been talking to a gunsmith about picking up a CZ 455 American and bedding the action, reworking the trigger to break crisp at 2lbs and recrowning the barrel.

I found a CZ 455 with the synthetic stock for about $350. I would like to ditch the stock for a wood stock. I can buy a CZ factory take off for pretty cheap or go with a Boyds. What other stocks would fit into the hunter class weight and style?

Is it a waste of money to ditch the Kimber for the CZ? Is this change going to prove to be more accurate than the Kimber?

Would I be better off with an Anschutz? I could probably swing the cost but I always like a challenge to make something great for less money.

And if it is a better deal to ditch the Kimber, is anyone in the market ?

Thanks,

Kevin

[GregG]

Kevin,

I actually own all three kind of. I started silhouette with the Kimber and eventually put the action in a pharr stock. The guns shoot extremely accurate. I own a youth model CZ and have shot several CZ and they too are extremely accurate. I am not sure why you would need to re-crown wither unless the crown was damaged.

I have since moved on to the Anschutz rifle. From a workmanship, I feel the Ansultz is much superior to both.

So my break down is:

- Advantage Anschutz trigger
- Advantage Anschutz fit and finish
- Advantage cost CZ
- Advantage weight (distribution) anyone

So to me any of the firearms you listed are more than sufficient to shoot and win silhouette matches. The question are to you have to have a "good" trigger, and what about the weight and weight distribution. I personally like a nose heavy rifle near the hunter weight limit. Larry E, likes the nose heavy rifle but has no issue with the CZ and will more than regularly bring out a stock Kimber.

My advice, if you have the money purchase a 1710HB and have it restocked. You just cannot go wrong.

Greg

[BCloninger]

Just from my perspective, stay with the Kimber HS until you can afford an Anschutz, most likely a 1712. The CZ is good but you already have a good rifle, so unless you just really want a 455 (hey, no explanations needed for buying another rifle) bank the cash and wait a little longer.

[kevoski]

I think going all the way to Anschutz is not what I want to do yet. You two are ttelling me unless I jump from a $800 rifle to a $2000 rifle i wwon't see a notable difference without work. Since the barrel is easy to replace I'm still inclined to pick up a $450 rifle and work it to be as accurate as an Anschutz for half the price. I may be reaching for the stars but at least I can swap the 455 barrel to a HMR and do a little hunting with a super accurate gun.

Thanks and any other insight would be appreciated.

[Jason]

There is much more to a silhouette rifle than a barrel. There is also lock time and trigger. In most cases, a rifle with a decent barrel and great trigger will allow a shooter to shoot higher scores than a rifle with a great barrel and only decent trigger. Both lock time and trigger will be far superior to both the CZ and the Kimber on the Anschutz. I think the CZ is a great value for the price. It is not a great platform to spend a lot of money to try to upgrade, though.

[Merlin]

There is much more to a silhouette rifle than a barrel. There is also lock time and trigger. In most cases, a rifle with a decent barrel and great trigger will allow a shooter to shoot higher scores than a rifle with a great barrel and only decent trigger. Both lock time and trigger will be far superior to both the CZ and the Kimber on the Anschutz. I think the CZ is a great value for the price. It is not a great platform to spend a lot of money to try to upgrade, though.

Right there.........

[dustinflint]

Get an Anschutz. If you keep shooting silhouette, you're going to end up with one anyway. They are the most accurate, and more importantly, as has been stated, they have the best lock time an by far the best TRIGGER.

There are CZ's in safes everywhere in homes of silhouette shooters that have too much money in them trying to turn them into an Anschutz. They stay in the safe while the shooter brings his Anschutz to the range - the one that he finally broke down and bought after doubling the cost of the CZ that he'll never get his money out of.

Also, a great Anschutz will not cost you $2000. Find a nice used one and get it for much less.

Dustin

[kevoski]

Get an Anschutz. If you keep shooting silhouette, you're going to end up with one anyway. They are the most accurate, and more importantly, as has been stated, they have the best lock time an by far the best TRIGGER.

There are CZ's in safes everywhere in homes of silhouette shooters that have too much money in them trying to turn them into an Anschutz. They stay in the safe while the shooter brings his Anschutz to the range - the one that he finally broke down and bought after doubling the cost of the CZ that he'll never get his money out of.

Also, a great Anschutz will not cost you $2000. Find a nice used one and get it for much less.

Dustin

But won't the cost of a decent used 1712/54 run me about $1450+? That is still about $450 more than a new CZ 455 with a trigger job, bedding, recoil pad and new Lilja barrel. Won't that set up get me the same kind of accuracy of an Anschutz?

I'm not trying to argue with you, I just want to understand if I am paying a lot for fit, finish and a 2 stage trigger?

[BCloninger]

It's difficult to think of the CZ 455 as a step up from a Kimber HS since they're both very good rifles. As strange as it sounds, there really are no intermediate steps between those two rifles and an Anschutz! Ironically, your Kimber HS was the intermediate rifle between CZ and Anschutz at one time, with steps of roughly $400, $800 and $1,300, but that was obviously several years ago. Now, the only .22's I can think of between the 455 and the 1712 are the Ruger 722 and the Remington 547.

I understand that Ruger is threading their 722 barrels now, and the 547 is a Custom Shop product, but I haven't heard any reports of them being used in Silhouette. They might work great, but you are gambling time, money and personal pride if you try one out. If that's what you like, though, and what you want to use, then do!

[dustinflint]

But won't the cost of a decent used 1712/54 run me about $1450+? That is still about $450 more than a new CZ 455 with a trigger job, bedding, recoil pad and new Lilja barrel. Won't that set up get me the same kind of accuracy of an Anschutz?

I'm not trying to argue with you, I just want to understand if I am paying a lot for fit, finish and a 2 stage trigger?

Yeah, if you bedded the action in the stock, replaced the trigger and replaced the barrel with a Lilja barrel, you could probably get the accuracy of an off-the-shelf Anschutz if you set them both on a bench and shot them side-by-side. The problem with that is that at silhouette matches, we dont shoot off the bench. We have to stand up and shoot, and the Anschutz will beat your super-CZ in 3 areas that all happen to be specifically relevant to standing up and shooting: trigger, fit and lock-time.

Lock time - is probably the least different between the two rifles IF you get a stronger firing pin spring for the CZ to decrease the lock time.

Fit - the CZ has a tiny stock that you can upgrade to a better stock from a place like Boyds but it still wont be nearly as good as the stock that comes on an Anschutz 1712. That stock is made for offhand shooting and has more drop at the heel and more cheek-weld than anything drop-in you are going to find. Of course, you can buy a silhouette stock blank for about $300 and have a gunsmith inlet and bed it for the CZ for about another $300.

Trigger - Anschutz makes the best triggers in the world - and most folks prefer a two-stage trigger over a single stage trigger for off-hand shooting. It's hard to explain what makes the anschutz trigger better to someone who hasn't tried it, but if you shot one for a while and compared, you'd get the idea.

I think you can make a very accurate, fine rifle out of the CZ 455 with the upgrades you've talked about. And if that is what you want to do, by all means go for it and let me know how you like it - but if you stay with and get serious about silhouette shooting I bet you eventually buy an Anschutz (or two, or three). Another thing to seriously consider is that you can spend $1400 on a lightly used Anschutz and sell it relatively easy for the same price if you decide you dont want it. If you put $1000+ into a CZ, it's yours forever unless you decide to take a significant hit to sell it.

Dustin

[kevoski]

I am looking at the 1712 and 54ms for pricing comparisons and I found a 54ms for $1100 locally. What is the difference between the 54ms and 1712?

[Bob259]

I am looking at the 1712 and 54ms for pricing comparisons and I found a 54ms for $1100 locally. What is the difference between the 54ms and 1712?

54MS is the Std (heavy rifle) and the 1712 can be used for both STD and Hunter classes.

[DavidABQ]

What about the Ruger 77/22?

Does no one use one?

[Dee]

Get a 10/22 then you can stand on the left of your competition and shower them with brass. Oh and shoot HV ammo too!

Get the Anschutz if you can. Don't waste lots of money trying to make something into something else. If that is your thing then by all means tinker away. You can win with any of them if you practice enough but you do it with style using a 1712

You will be hard pressed to get the trigger of a CZ to replicate the Anschutz. Even in single stage while good and somewhat workable the CZ is just lacking. But for the money that amount of lack is very little really.

Have you shot others?

[kevoski]

Have you shot others?

I have shot my Kimber, 10/22's, Remington's, CZ's and some lever guns but never an Anschutz.

I just went through this dilemma about a year ago when I was looking to buy a tactical long range rifle. I beat myself up over custom rifle builders and different custom actions and ended up forking out the cash for a Surgeon. I now have it and don't shoot it as much as I would like. One good thing to know is that if I wanted to sell it I could get most of my money back and quickly. After thinking about what Dustin said about resale it really go me thinking Anschutz.

I am still thinking that, less the Lilija barrel, I could get a great shooting rifle for less in a CZ. But who knows if I am just trading a Kimber for a CZ and making a very lateral move.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone.