1712 Extraction

[boats]

My new 1712 is not extracting 4 or 5 out of 50 gets worse as the chamber gets dirty. Called Styer they say it may be the spring clip, one that goes around the bolt holding the extractors in. I don’t think that’s the problem. Pulled the scope off looked at all carefully with a good light and glass. Extractor, on the bolts right side, can’t grab the cartridges rim. Extractor cut in the barrel prevents it from going over the case. I suspect a faulty extractor cut, not deep enough. Left side is deeper and allows the round nose extractor to snap over the rim. Never saw a set up were the extractor only hits the outside of the rim not under the case rim.

Anybody have any ideas?

Boats

[Trent]

What about the extractor itself? It could be mishaped as well, preventing it from matching up with the cut in the barrel.

[boats]

Good thought. First thing I thought the extractor may have a burr or something keeping it from moving properly, Stoned it little bit all moves nice and easy. Of course that does not have anything to do with how it fits the extractor cut end of the barrel. I painted rim of a cartridge with black marker, to indicate engagement. Only grabs a bit of the rim on the edge. It could well be the extractor, might paint it up with some black marker see what happens when it works without a cartridge.

Styer to there credit told me to ship the rifle back soon as I phoned. However if it's a common problem I want to know how to fix it and keep the gun running myself.

Boats

[boats]

Went back down in the shop, painted the extractor up with marker. Looking at it in profile resembles a Canvasback ducks head. On the slope of the bill, top side, marker is rubbed off all the way to the tip from working the bolt. So the extractor is definatly contacting extractor cut in the barrel. Could be stoning off a little will allow better engagement. Or could screw it up entirely. Cheap part worth the risk.

Boats

[Jerry G]

I know several people who have had this same problem. We messed with all the stuff you guys have mentioned with no luck. Someone even suggested that the operator was being too gentle while closing the bolt as well as opening the bolt. If you find a solution, I would like to know how to fix the problem.

[Boyd L.]

Anybody have any ideas?

Boats

The folks on RFC have beat this one to death with the fix seeming to be exactly where you are heading. That is to say to create a better "bite" on the case rim. Some have removed metal at the rear extractor "leg" (where it secures and pivots into the bolt). Though you've probably seen these, here are a couple of examples of that solution from RFC:
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/sh ... r+ejection

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/sh ... ractor+fix

I like how you've detected that the duck's "forehead and bill" aren't clearing the cut. I would: 1. Order a couple spare extractors and, 2. stone down the "duck's head" where the contact is evident. No doubt the wrong radius/angle was cut into your extractor groove.

Let us know what you do.

[boats]

Thanks have not seen those links will check them out.

I am going to go the easy route on Monday, Get Styer USA to send me couple of extractors and spring clips, Switch them around to see if tolarance stacking is the problem, one of the combinations may work. If not take one of the extractors and stone it to see if I can make it work. Extractors always puzzle me, why would a manufacturer cheap out a part that is so critical to operation and can save so little in fabracation.

You would think Anschutz would know better. No luck pack it up and send it back

Boats

[xpilot]

You would think Anschutz would know better. No luck pack it up and send it back

Boats[/quote]

Anschutz has known about the extraction/ejection problems for a LONG time. There have been multiple threads on various sites for 2-3 years with no response from Anschutz.
Customer service at its finest from the Meisters

[edgehit]

There's not much you can do if the extractor cut out isn't deep enough. Can you verify this by posting a close up photo of an empty chamber?

[boats]

I think there could be a problem with the extractor cut but don't know for sure. Guessing it's not real likely a machining operation like cutting extractor groves would be off, and very likely stamped parts like Extractors would have inconsistent dim's It's not easy to see the depth. I made a small wire hook to feel the difference left and right cut, will try to get a photo though.

Read those post, very good info once you sort out the rants, extractor and ejection problems. All I am concerned with is pulling the empty case out. If it ejects short or long falls into the action thats ok with me. Have several rifles that do that. Have to knock the empty out with a rod, you are out of the match.

One things for sure fix it or not my old Oregon Kimber hunter rifle is going to matches as a back up. Failed at times, I know it's weak spots, can fix it quick.

Boats

[Evelio Mc Donald]

Boats
First all, I am going to assume it is a factory barrel and not a custom barrel. Normally the 1712 are known for week ejection but are good for positive extraction.
What brand of ammo. are you using ???
Make sure that the face of the chamber is clean, and use a pick to clean inside of the extractor slots, and blow it out good with compressed air if available. Also make sure that the face of the bolt is clean and also under the extractor nose. Sometimes the accumulation of shaved lead and bullet lube will not allow the surfaces involved to mate properly.
Now take the bolt out, turn it upside down, the finger on the left is actually the extractor, and it has a sharp hook on the end, the one on the right is the retainer. Take a round or a fired case, and insert it under the extractor. The round should stay in place againts the bolt face, now try to pull the round off straight forward simulating the action of the bolt,no side pushing, just as straight forward as you can, the round should stay attached to the bolt, if it comes off, then I would say that the retaining round spring clip is weak allowing the extractor to open up and release the round, if the round stays in place, then you ruled out any problem with the extractor. You may also want to look at how much of the extractor hook ( left one ) is under the rim of the case, it should have full contact all around that section of the case. I have seen some where only the tip is touching the case, and that tip needs to be stoned down until there is 100% contact with the case under the rim.
If the extractor slots were missaligned ( slim chance ) it would be very hard to close the bolt, even with and empty chamber.
If your problem persist, I would blame it on a tight dirty chamber, and the brand of ammo.
I hope I could be of help.
Evelio.

[Evelio Mc Donald]

Boats
I forgot to mention that what you call the " duck head" is actually the retainer, also when you paint the top of the extractors front taper in both fingers, the paint will allways rubs off, reason is, that is where it contacts the rim of the case to expand open and fit over the rim. If you do it on an empty chamber it will also be scraped off because of the contact with the internal taper inside of the extractor slots.
Evelio.

[kitsap]

This topic has had my attention in this and many other threads over the years. The picture below is of the bolt from a 2000 era model 1710 and it has been shot very little. Factory barrel and no modifications to either the extractor or retainer. Ejection of the fired cases is very problematic. Ejection of an unfired round is perfect. The bolt face, under and around the extractor and retainer is meticulously clean.

Maybe the pictures will help with the conversation. The ammunition is Lapua Biathalon.

DougF

[boats]

Thanks both.

To be clear problem is extraction not ejection. it's confusing too extractor vs retainer right - left bolt upside down or not but I know the difference. Extractor is the sharp edge part. Rifle new unfired factory 100 %, mounted the scope and used a box of Winchester T22 indoor range near my house to get 25 yard & windage zero, no problems. Then to our club range for rough all 4 critter zeros same T22 ammo problem started in the 3rd box about 125 rounds through the rifle. With T22 bolt was real hard to close. I accounted it to inexpensive cardriges rim thickness. Back home cleaned all perfectly. Cycled in my shop with R50 some old 900B and little bit of Black box Eley. Same thing inconstent extraction. CCI Mini mags, would not extract this brand not at all, with a glass they show very strong rifling engagement.

I took some of the T22 and dressed down the noses, all extract fine, so it works just not good. It's possable tip of the extractor broke off causing the sudden change in ablity to extract. I keep T22 on hand for jobs then need cheap ammo and never noticed it had thicker rims. Runs through 39A's perfect, My tight chamber single shots have so much camming power you would not notice a thick rim.

On the phone with Styer yesterday they again offered to take the rifle back and fix it. Am too subborn for that. Put me on the phone with the gunsmith who said he has never seen problems with the extractor cut but they can have extractor & extractor spring problems. Sending me a couple so I have spares when dressing down. He also said any of the parts can be the culprit no clear pattern thats always the problem. Most common is a weak spring clip. Who knows new clip and extractor it may work fine.

Appreceate all who have responded. Not many guys in my neighborhood know anything about Anschutz Extractors

Boats

[Trent]

Boats, are we talking about extracting live ammo, or fired?