What kind of accuracy do you expect?

Ghostofwar · Post by **Ghostofwar** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:02 pm

I am just wondering what kind of groups everyone here expects to get from there Rifle and ammo combination at 100 meters. Lots of people talk about 50 meter groups and all but I not many talk about groups at 100. I am happy with the 1 inch groups at 100 from my new 1712 with Eley Match. I don't know if it would even be worth it to go with better ammo to try to get smaller groups. And I would probably give up a little bit of accuracy (like maybe 1.5" groups) to shoot some lower price ammo (which is why I ordered some Eley Target). Anyway, I just wonder what kind of groups everyone is getting. I guess it also depends on where you stand in classification too, right?

BlauBear · Post by **BlauBear** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:46 pm

My rule of thumb is 1 MOA, but I lack the bench skill to confidently test that at 100 meters.

Bob Mc Alice · Post by **Bob Mc Alice** » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:47 pm

If you are getting honest one inch groups at 100 m ,I consider this to be very good accuracy. You should be happy. My own two Kimbers will shoot that good with the SK std. plus with occasional shots touching, in ideal conditions. Another consideration is that not everyone has the skill to shoot tight groups off the bench at long range. I shot benchrest for a while and believe my groups are as best as possible with those rifles and that ammo. I did try a variety of the very high priced ammo and found that they did not group a whole lot better than the SK. Not better enough to justify the extreme cost. Your classification has little to do with bench rest technique.

As you can see, a one inch group at the SB ram "ain't too shabby".....unless your breaking the shot near the edge!

kevinbear · Post by **kevinbear** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:38 am

I've had some excellent results sorting Federal automatch so decided to try sorting some SK standard, I'm going to Aurora on friday to try it so I'll let you know how it goes. Your welcome to try some on sunday before the match in your gun if your interested. The weight sorting went extremely well so my expectations are very high but one never knows without actually testing.
KB

Jerry G · Post by **Jerry G** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 2:11 pm

50m doesn't mean anything. I have seen ammo that groups great at 50 but goes to hell at 100.

If you can shoot 5 shot groops within 1.25" for club matches and practice and 1.00" for important matches I think that is about as good as it gets. I have seen many 3 shot groups around 0.75 but.....

By the way, I would like to know what shooters off-hand groups look like. Some days mine are great and other days they are way over 4" which gets you about 1/2 of the targets.

BlauBear · Post by **BlauBear** » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:58 pm

After this discussion I tested my rig at 100 yards and got the same groups - maybe a little better for reasons unknown. Maybe because I was more careful.

Innocent · Post by **Innocent** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:22 am

Maybe because I was more careful.

BB...I'm sure it was because you had the help of a little wind in your favor.

Innocent

BlauBear · Post by **BlauBear** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:30 am

Innocent wrote:
Maybe because I was more careful.
BB...I'm sure it was because you had the help of a little wind in your favor.

Innocent

True enough - the Commander and his Adjutant had arrived by that time.

jneihouse · Post by **jneihouse** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:21 am

FWIW...A lot of people are either seduced or psyched out by group size...A lot can happen to a group from the time you shoot it on the bench to the time your stand on your hind legs and shoot it like we shoot the sport...putting a bullet sized hole in a paper ram target and then posting it at 100M and standing offhand just like we do in a match. breaking on that spot, following through and calling your shot will give you much more relevant feedback for silhouette shooting than benching the rifle....That is assuming that you have ammo that is shooting at least as good as most premium ammo does these days....shooting groups from the bench is not as easy as it looks...for example, I shoot a lot, but don't shoot very well from the bench.....so my 100M bench results most of the time aren't very impressive...

KItty

Innocent · Post by **Innocent** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:49 am

Commander Kitty, Jerry Tureau is one that shoots much better groups standing than he does from the bench. So you are not alone.

Innocent

Jason · Post by **Jason** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:52 am

Not to mention that the ballistic coefficient of 22lr bullets is so bad and they travel so slowly that even the slightest bit of wind can play havoc with group size testing. If you want to seriously test grouping at 100m, you pretty much have to have no wind at all (early morning often helpful here) or use at least three good quality wind flag and learn to read them like a benchrest shooter. Most benchresters use three flags for 50m shoot, so five is a good bet for 100m shooting. Remember that just because you don't feel any wind on your face doesn't mean that there is no wind anywhere along the path of bullet travel.

Ghostofwar · Post by **Ghostofwar** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:56 pm

I do my testing at the local range in the evening. Most times there is absolutely no wind and the temperatures have been pleasant around that time. I do check my groups off hand too. I practice on swingers but shoot paper silhouette targets as well some times to make sure everything is good. I can tell a difference in good and bad ammo when shooting groups off hand. Good ammo has larger groups than off the bench (duh) but the bad ammo you can see the flyers in the groups.

kevinbear · Post by **kevinbear** » Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:52 pm

Underground indoor ranges are the way to go if you have access to one, I'm lucky that I can go to two. The other approach is to chronograph the ammo which eliminates the stuff that will string vertically at 100 meters.

Jerry G · Post by **Jerry G** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 8:13 am

All this being said, it still comes down to how good is .22 ammo. You will never see the accurcy with it that you can get with most CF ammo no matter how much it costs.

Something else that hasn't come up in this thread is your gun. Do you have the dreaded dognut at 6 o'clock in your bbl? Do you have a tight chamber? It still comes down to what your group looks like when you are standing on your hind legs with match pressure.

Evelio Mc Donald · Post by **Evelio Mc Donald** » Sun Jul 26, 2009 9:58 am

Just my two cents
Accuracy is very important in silhouette or any other type of competition shooting. In my opinion a 1 minute of angle accuracy at 100 meters is the minimum requirement of a conbination of ammo. and rifle.
If your gun is shooting 3" or 4" groups at the rams from a bench, your chances are 1 in a 100 of hitting that ram when shooting off hand standing.
Evelio

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