stock guns?

[MasterBlaster]

i noticed most the shooters at the range are older and there guns are tops.

one of them told me they all started out with basic stuff but upgraded all the whistles over the years.

i'm wondering if theres a corrilation between their super-guns and no young shooters. it looks like a fun sport but i can't afford to compete and it kinda takes the fun out of it. is there a catergory for stock guns?

[Koldkut]

from taking to Dawg, It seems that anyone with a gun that will bench 1" at 100 yards is good enough. until you get up there in class, a stock gun will work until you can outshoot the gun.

[dave imas]

all due respect to the Dawg, perhaps benching a consistent inch at 100 yards would be asking a bit much of most rifles, custom, stock or otherwise. i'm thinking Senor Perro's words might have changed a bit in the translation.

There was a stock (hunter) class. although the Hunter class still exists the rules have changed to allow any rifle that fits a few stipulations and looks like a hunter rifle. There are still quite a few (majority) of stock rifles on the line but you tend to find custom hunter rifles in the hands of the best shooters and most of those attempting to break in to the rank.

All that said, come on out with whatever you might have. We all started somewhere... it was a 10/22 for me with a $35 scope. This game is challenging and a lot of fun regardless of what you are shooting. if you are just starting out and your rifle will consistently and safely go bang, sending your bullets in the same general direction each time... consider it good enough.
dave

[genphideaux]

We all have been there, and have worked to get a better hold, trigger control, stance....etc. A custom gun does no better than any other to teach you the basics. It is all about practice. Start with what you have and work on the basics the rest will come with time and knowledge. I'm glad I started out slow, so that when I upgraded I knew what I wanted and what I didn't. I have seen stock guns in the hands of shooters with a good understanding of the basics out perform a custom setup on several occasions. When I shot skeet for the Air Force I saw 40 to 70 thousand dollar guns on the fields everyday, I never felt out gunned, because I knew the basics, this allowed me to out perform them at every level, and with time I too upgraded, but I never felt that I was at a disadvantage, because I knew you could never buy a great score you have to work for it.

I feel that in todays society we think that things can be bought, silhouette has a way of reversing this thinking, It's all about practice and education.

You see a lot of young shooters in my area, and they do well, but they also know that they have to accept the good with the bad and work out their problems not lay it at the feet of equipment. Anytime they have a problem I simply remind them to go back to the basics.

[jneihouse]

Might add my thought's for what it's worth.... The biggest co-relation between older shooters and high end guns is disposable income. That's also why you see very few (relationally speaking) younger shooters traveling to the "big" matches that consume a weekend and usually a couple of work days in travel plus either expensive gas or airline tickets and lodging and meal costs. When my three kids were growing up and I had a mortgage, vehicle debt, college fund and all the rest a good CZ and decent scope would represent quite an investment. Vacation time and other time off were spent with family and that didn't leave a whole lot of time for travel to compete. As families mature, debt goes away and income rises high end toys are more within reach. That being said a young shooter should never be intimidated by the ultimate shiny stuff in the racks at matches. Shoot what you have and have a blast. As funds and opportunity arise, spend wisely. Invest in practice ammo and shoot quality practice. And always remember, have fun. Shoot against yourself, not against other shooters. Keep in mind that there is a very good reason that this sport has classes from B to Master.

[dave imas]

extremely well said John.

[KY Ratshooter]

It may also be that we old folks are not giving our fullest and best advice to the young shooters. Not that anyone would hold out for meaness or anything, we just often don't remember what we did when we started.

I've seen that picture of the Mosburg action nailed, duct taped and hose clamped into that 2X4!!! I keep in bookmarked!!

I am a tinkerer. I have no fear of stripping a cheap gun to the limit and doing anything I can to wring the most out of it. Most of todays young folks are a bit scared to do that.

Your stock gun will often do more than you think it will. I just finished bedding and reworking the trigger on an old Mosburg SS and topped it with a 3-9 scope for testing. Cheap ammo went 1 1/2" at 50, but Elly match closed it to 3/4". It was consistantly punching 3" disk targets at 100yds. $35 for the gun and $29 for the scope. Yep, it looks like crap, but according to the rule book it qualifies for hunter class and would be conpetitive mechanically.

I have not been shooting steel long, but I have been buying guns, repairing them and shooting them since Ike was in office. They're like cars; once in a while someone builds a sleeper and eats everyone in town for lunch.

[Troy G]

Hey, what gives? I love pimpin' equipment and you guys are telling me that I won't be Master when it is all said and done? I will just have to talk the talk until I can walk the walk.

Sincerely,

Stylin Loser

I personally hate the fact that some people (probably that have never tried the sport) are under the impression that you can buy your way into Master class and that silhouette is an equipment race. Why is this the case?

[Gator]

This thread needs to be immortalized. It is probably the most valuable advice for a NEW shooter (an old shooter as well should pay attention) that I have seen in print.
I have always held to the idea that the average .22 rifle will out shoot the shooter. No matter what the equipment is, if the sight picture is flawed, the shot will miss

[GeoNLR]

Speaking as a relatively

[duckgumbo]

This thread has some great, GREAT ideas, especially from Imas on the Left Coast!

I am of the opinion that ANYONE can shoot this sport with ANY rifle. You do NOT have to invest in expensive equipment. I personally think that the NRA Silhouette Rules Committee screwed up with the Hunter Rifle rules change when you can virtually make up any rifle that "LOOKS" like a Hunter Rifle. This is very discouraging to new shooters. I always thought that the Hunter class was to ENCOURAGE NOT DISCOURAGE participation in the sport!

Why didn't the brilliant NRA Silhouette Rules Committee leave well enough alone and let the Chin guns and the standard class rifles go at it and have an out-of-the box class such as Hunter Rifle? Obviously, these morons do not have a clue as to what the general shooting public wants and cater to a small and elite group of shooters.

I do not care what they do, they will NEVER run me out of the sport with rule changes as they have some others as recently as last year!

It is all about having fun. When you cease to have fun and only shoot against yourself, you need to find another hobby. I have made many good friends and acquaintances (sic) in this sport and to me that is what it is all about.

All that being said, come to Winnsboro and we WILL have a LARGE time!

Duckgumbo

[Jason]

I don't know if I qualify as a new shooter having been in the game for almost two years now, but I didn't really see silhouette as an equipment race and still don't for the most part. I came from benchrest, which most definitely is an equipment race, so maybe my perception is a little different, though. I think we're doing pretty well with pointing most new people toward CZs when they're starting out and giving them the hints they need to tweak the CZs into a little better shooting shape. That's what happened with me, anyway. I had actually sold my CZ Varmint when I fist started, and on the advice of a few shooters went and bought it back. That was two years ago and I'm just now to the point that I want something a little better. As has been mentioned, with a mortgage, kids, auto loans, etc., funds aren't all that plentiful so I sold off a few guns that I didn't shoot much and did some side jobs to afford a better gun. I don't really believe that it will send my scores through the roof, but it will let me keep improving which is my whole reason for buying it.

[genphideaux]

Gator,

Smudged as I may be, this post has brought to bare a continual reasoning process of the new shooters, which is "I cannot compete with all of those custom guns or high end equipment",I believe that equipment does not make the shooter, it may enhance or facilitate a small margin of gain but the key component of our game is that thing between our ears, or lack there of in many cases.
It seems to be easier to right off our sport due to lack of funds than to admitt that this is something that has to be worked at each day. I will go on the record and say this sport has taught me so many things about self control, mental ability....when to lay off the bottle(if I plan on a double digit score)..sportsmanship and people in general. I have perticipated and competed in many shooting sports and never was these self attributes been so evident.
And when a victory comes your why it's because of all the mental training and practice, not equipment.
There will always be better equipment, they have yet to do a brain transplant, a pity for many of us.

To me that is what makes me keep coming back each and everyday.

[ajj]

I'm going to risk oversimplyfing and try to tell the average newby what the equipment race is all about:
This game is about learning to hold the rifle correctly as you break a shot without disturbing the sight picture (and then doing it again and again, in a match.) That's all there is. There ain't no more. That's it.
It's a more complicated skill than it appears to be. It's all about the fundamentals but there are a lot of them and some are fairly subtle. Developing the skill is all about practicing the right things. That's it. It's not about "discovering" who has some innate ability. It's about who will do the work and train the mind along with the body. That's all it's about.
High-dollar custom rifles hold a little better and their triggers break a little "cleaner." That's all money buys you in silhouette. Nothing else. Not significantly better accuracy, not a good hold, not a shortcut to learning trigger break; just a rifle that's a LITTLE bit more "on your side" as you do the WORK necessary to develop the skills. I personally think that learning to hold an off the rack rifle and break an off the rack trigger is good for new shooters, but that's just me.
When you find that you've plugged away at it for several years with a cheap rifle and you're getting somewhat competitive and you really enjoy it and, hey, the kids are out of school, you start thinking about getting a fine rifle, "just because" it would be fun to have the "best."
Naturally, it looks like an equipment race to the new guy. He's got a 10-22 or a CZ and everywhere he looks he sees Anschutz. Well, it AIN'T an equipment race. It's a race to see who'll persist in practicing and learning and shooting matches. If the newby isn't going to do that with a CZ he isn't going to do it with an Anschutz. Because he just never fell in love with the sport. It's not for everybody.
But if the newby's not motivated enough to do it with a CZ or a 10-22 or an old Mossberg he needs to quit telling me he would do it if he wasn't so bummed out by the price of good equipment. Because I know better. He may believe it himself, but I don't.
Alston "Mr. Knowitall, LastWordonEverything" Jennings. Little Rock, AR.
Whadda you mean that's what everybody else already said?

[Jason]

To the original question here, I think I'll go post a poll just to get some feedback on who thinks it would really be better to have only factory stock guns in the hunter class.