Both, failed to extract empty's at the club range. Back home only way I can test it is with live unfired rounds. No sense in driving back to the range if it won't extract live unfired rounds. All shop test have been with live rounds unfired.

Failing to extract live unfired is not uncommon with tight chambered rifles, and a real safety issue, open the bolt don't look in the chamber then snap the trigger you get accidental discharges. My single shots will pull the case out leave the bullet in the leade often. Expect it with those rifles.

Boats

Kitsap
Those are good pictures, are you having extraction or ejection problems.
Boats
Did you try seating a round on the bolt, and pulling on it ?
Evelio.

Evelio Mc Donald wrote:Kitsap
Those are good pictures, are you having extraction or ejection problems.
Evelio.

Thank you. Yes, problems with ejection. Probably 50% of the fired cases end up in the loading port adjacent to the next live round on the top of the magazine.

DougF

Kitsap
The ejection problem occurs in about 50% of 1700 series rifles, you have to really work the bolt fast to the rear, and hit the ejector on the back of the loading ramp with enough momentum to knock the case out, sometimes if the scope is mounted too low, it will hit the tube and bounce back into the loading ramp. There are several sites out there with a hundred different ways to solve the problem, I would not know of which would work better, but messing with the extractors could create an extraction problem which you don't need.

To enhance EJECTION, take a little off the holding edge of the left hook (looking from the top of the bolt) this will enable the right hook (ducks head) to throw the empty (because it is not held as tight) as soon as the bolt hits the stop.

xpilot wrote:To enhance EJECTION, take a little off the holding edge of the left hook (looking from the top of the bolt) this will enable the right hook (ducks head) to throw the empty (because it is not held as tight) as soon as the bolt hits the stop.

xpilot,

I would appreciate your being more specific than ...the holding edge... I understand the left hook. What do you consider the holding edge?? The back edge closest to the bolt, the tip of the hook,.. ??

DougF

Doug, I am referring to the edge of the hook that overlaps the rim. If you round the corners a bit it will not be able to hold the rim as tight and will allow the empty to rotate towards the right and clear of the port. In other words, lessen the gripping capability of the left hook and it is easier for the right hook to rotate the case clear.

Kitsap
I will have to agree with X-pilot suggestion, I have done the same on several, but you have to take minimal amount at the time, and keep testing it every time, if you take off too much, you will start experiencing extraction failures which to me are more of a pain in the rear rather than the ejection problem. In any case replacement extractors are readily available.
Evelio.

xpilot, Evelio,

Thanks to both of you. I will work on it over the next few days.

Doug

Evelio,

I did put a round between the extractor and ejector, bolt out of the rifle. It holds the cartridge, how tight is hard to say, nothing to compare it to. When I get the new spring clip and extractor in the mail will do it with old then new see if any difference. Also anxious to compare the new extractor shape with the old, see if mine might have broken the tip somehow.

Boats

Evelio,

My understanding is that the left "hook" (when viewed from the top) is actually a feeding guide. On an unmodified feeding guide you should see a large gap between it and the cartridge rim when the cartridge is in place in the bolt face(and held in place by the extractor). The actual extractor (on the right) normally interferes with the round coming up into the bolt face and only does so as the round is fed into the chamber.

You have seen a great many more Anschutz actions than I have, but all of mine have been this way. One "'smith" beat the hell out of these things on one of my rifles and it would not feed at all. I replaced the parts and it at least functions, if imperfectly. I just live with it.

It is unfortunate that the Anschutz market is too small for anyone to build replacement pieces like the Volquartsen 10/22 extractors.

I think there are lessons to be learned from "tuning" 45 ACP extractors. To begin with, there are a lot of sharp edges in places there should not be. Because these parts are so small, it woe be a lot of tedious experimenting. I suspect that most of the modifications would cut through the surface hardening, requiring the part to be hardened. You have expect that the parts might well fail, and at the most inconvenient time.

I have come to doubt the usefulness of the feeding guide/left hand hook. It would be an interesting experiment to simply remove it and see what happens when the fired case contacts the ejector. (Tuning the ejector is yet another issue.) I think that the Anschutz bolt design may have been compromised for ease of manufacture, but that is just my opinion.

It would useful to have a large supply of spare parts and a lot of time to fiddle with this thing. Like a lot of other people, I have simply learned to live with it. I use the modified Anschutz extract ration/ejection cycle...work the bolt rapidly, as you recommend, and flip the rifle to eject the empty case. It's just part of using an Anschutz.

The only things I see to recommend the Anschutz platform are the ready-to-go Hunter Rifle which usually has a fairly decent barrel, a nice trigger and a good lock time. On the other hand, there are not a great many alternatives.

Cheers,

Rick

Rick
The part you are talking about is not a guide, it is actually a retainer, that keeps the round or case still attached to the bolt after it completly clears the chamber. If that part was not there the case will fall out of the bolt the minute it clears the chamber, and will land right on the feeding ramp. The first 54 actions actually only had the one extractor, and you would have to reach with your fingers and discard the empty. I have one, and it is a pain in the ass to pick the empties out, specially while in the prone position, not bad with iron sights, you just get use to canting the rifle to let the empty roll out. I don't really know when the second finger or retainer was incorporated in the design, but it really was an improvement, even though the whole ejection system still sucks.
The way it is now, I think the system was designed for iron sights, but once a scope is incorporated, the case tend to hit the tube and bounce back into the receiver.
To make everybody feel better, my new top of the line benchrest action, ( $1,300.00 action alone ) will drop 5 of 10 empties back on the receiver after bouncing off the scope tube. Actually the whole bottom over the open port of my Nightforce scope is all ding up from the cases hiting it.
Evelio.

Evelio

New parts came in yesterday’s mail. Installed no cure, in fact not as good as the extractor I had dressed slightly with a stone. Mounted a cartridge in the bolt like you suggested, out of the rifle. Holds it tight and you can’t pull the cartridge off the bolt straight, like it was coming out of the chamber. It’s obvious something inside the action is keeping the extractor from engaging properly. Works fine out of the action.

Bolt removed I put a cartridge in the chamber pushed it home and with the extractor alone, out of the bolt, pushed it into the extractor cut. It’ can’t grab the case; all it can do is slide along the side of the rim.

Pulled out a Springfield M 1922 and Marlin 39A. Both the same, extractor cut on the right side of the barrel face intersects the chamber with a sharp edge; cartridge chambered leaves some rim for the extractors to grab. 1712 there is a shoulder were the extractor cut intersects the barrel, and it’s about the same size as the cartridge rim preventing the extractor from getting any real “grab”. If it was not new and cost so much I would either ruin it or fix it with a Dremel in 2 minutes.

Boats

Boats
The intersection of the extractor slot and the chamber should be real sharp, no flat or shoulder, as a matter of fact, some actually cuts into the chamber.
As is it is impossible to fix it with the barrel still in the action, at this point my advise is to send it back to the dealer you got it from, maybe they will give you a new one.
Sorry I could not help you out.
Good luck.
Evelio.

Evelio

Am pretty sure that's the problem with this 1712. Push a catridge in the chamber no bolt, make a hook out of small diamater wire you can't grab the rim sliding up the extractor cut in the barrel. Bolt out it holds cartridges so tight they can't be pulled loose. Extractor is not getting what it needs on the rim and it's the extractor cut preventing it.

Styer just sent me a pre paid return label. Get it back and if it works will post what the cure was.

Boats