If there was a free online scoring system would you use it?

[OldRanger]

Hi everyone, I keep seeing people asking about online scoring systems and real time score postings and it kind of ticks me off we don't have one. I'm a computer geek and was talking to Mordecai about something along these lines before. So if I built a system that a scorekeeper at the match could enter scores online and they would be available real time for viewing (at the range on a big tv or at work on your phone, whatever) would you use it? We kind of pictured having multiple screens (cheap tv's from yard sales or pawn shops) set up so everyone didn't have to scrunch around one board. And I am thinking of making the scores/stats all searchable by individual, state, match etc. The first time set up would take a little (entering all of the shooters names, city, state and maybe NRA numbers) but after that you could just select them for your match and enter scores.

Anyways, the question is, would this get used? Do you have power and internet (cell phone like air card is fine) at your ranges? Does anyone know if there is a way I could get all of the shooters info from the NRA (Name, city, state and nra number)?

I'm already working on the basics of this system, just wondering if I'm pissing in the wind. I'm a geek so I'm going to build it no matter what, but if it will actually get used I'll work harder to have it up for next season.

[Bob259]

Interesting idea and I'm sure it would be used once we figured out what we needed to do to utilize it locally. Good luck on getting the NRA to provide you that information, wish they would because the data could be used by them to provide a classification system for everyone shooting Silhouette, just like HP and International shooters have. Gee, that means we'd be out of the stone age.

[psteiger]

Kris,
That would be neat but a list of matches would be even better. A one stop listing of all the regional/ state/? matches would really be nice for planning purposes. Great meeting you at Nationals. You need to fix the bolt on big white, it's on the wrong side........

p

[AMB]

Funny I just posted a similar comment in CLA.

There is a list of all matches including all championship tournaments, it can be accessed through Shooting Sports USA the online magazine. Match Directors submit and it will be posted. The down side is it's a PDF file and not real time, the match has to be submitted for posting by the 15th to make the list in two months!
http://www.nrapublications.org/wp-conte ... wnload.pdf

I'm pretty familiar with what OldRanger is asking. We've had that model in Amateur Wrestling for a good ten years?...probably more like 12-13. (see Trackwrestling.com for a good example ). Actually several different businesses provide it, it's also done in running/track/cross country/gymnastics, etc.

In Wrestling it's highly evolved, a tournament can hire out the entire administration...from online registration and payment to real-time individual bout scoring including Streaming. But these are normally at least 300 competitors and up.

Whether or not practical for small monthly matches not sure, but I think a simple program even if not real time would make sense for bigger matches such as Regionals/States and Nationals . Even if all it did was post the results as a pdf file on an accessible website at the end of the day.

Our Match Director has been using a simple excel spreadsheets for a number of years, he just posts a printout after each round. He has the match bulletin ready to go when people are leaving and also emails it to them as an attachment as long as he has their email. Some people still like the comfort/familiarity of a Big Yellow Poster, but we rarely use them anymore.

[dustinflint]

That would be neat but a list of matches would be even better. A one stop listing of all the regional/ state/? matches would really be nice for planning purposes.

Kris,

I agree with Pat - and I wish Mike would PUT A CALENDAR ON STEELCHICKENS for championship matches.

Anyway, that's not what you're asking about. This is my opinion from a match director's standpoint: Would a system to post scores on televisions at matches be used? No, I don't think so. First, most ranges don't have the necessary equipment on hand. Second, to bring additional equipment out, learn how to use it, set it up, teach stat volunteers how to use it, etc. would probably be more work than it's worth to solve a small problem. The written scoreboards work well. If we had 300 shooters at big matches, it'd be different.

What I think would be great and useful is to get rid of the stone age scorebooks and match reporting cards and go to an online system. Basically, instead of buying a scorebook every year, everyone buys a license from the NRA for about $10-$20/year. When you get to the match, you show your license (just a card) to the match director. After the match, instead of the match director sending in a match reporting card (for club matches) or a huge packet of paper (for championship matches), the match director just jumps on the internet and enters the competitor's name and the scores into the database. The database then keeps up with scores, upgrades, grand slams, classification, national records, approved & registered matches, everything.

In bike racing, there is a classification system much like silhouette shooting. When there is a bike race, the race director registers the race with USACycling, then any racer wanting to enter the race goes online, chooses the race he wants to enter, puts in his racer number and everything is immediately filled out from the database info (including his classification). He then pays his race fees with a credit card and a report is sent to the race director showing how many racers are entered, their classes and everything else.

The same thing could be used for silhouette. In fact, the match director could even tell the database the layout of the range and it could automatically squad a big match. So, going into a big match, the match director would already have the shooters names, classes, squadding, and a check from the NRA for the match fees (less the NRA's cut). After the match, the director puts each shooter's scores into the database and enters any grand slam 10's and any national records and he is done. For club matches, the director just enters the shooter's names or competitor number and scores/grand slam 10's and he's done.

Also, the database can generate reports so that anyone can search for club match results and big match results for any shooter at any time. We could even have a ranking system to see where shooters are ranked across the country for a particular period of time.

The catch with all that is that to make it work, the NRA would have to make the database its official match reporting policy to get all the match directors on board... Knowing Greg, that will be a problem.

Dustin

[AMB]

Something along the lines of what Dustin suggests would work great, and actually if you had a progressive staff at the NRA would not be all that hard to implement, but there lies the problem. In addition to match directors whose heads would blow up if facing anything that's not yellow and number 2 lead.

[Snake]

We use an Excel program set up for recording silhouette scores.I'm afraid Mr O'Malley may not won'y publicize it for fear of copyright issues

[psteiger]

The NRA does have an online classification list for long range. Just input the NRA number and viola.

Thanks for the heads up on the shooting sports match list. It would be nice if it was in calendar format, with red being nationals, green for state, blue for regionals and black for local. Then you could know at a glance what was up.

Dustin, you need to get on the silhouette comittee so you can fix these things. For once I get to volunteer someone else to do a job. I love it!

[dustinflint]

Dustin, you need to get on the silhouette comittee so you can fix these things. For once I get to volunteer someone else to do a job. I love it!

I am a silhouette committee of one. Thankfully, this committee has no power.

Dustin

[OldRanger]

Well one of my long range hopes is that I could get a system up and running that would be as simple as you need it to be. At the low end you enter names and final scores and it would be easily accessible on the web. At its most complex the shooters would already be entered, you choose them as match director and score keepers enter every hit/miss. Then the system could calculate everything like 10 in a row, class etc. Part of this effort I think could be to use the silhouette community for a proof of concept and help push the NEXT NRA silhouette director to use something automated. Even if no one used it 'live' with TV's at the range, if I could get some folks to enter all of their matches in it that would be progress. I would gladly give it to the NRA if they would use it nation wide. It could easily track all members and their classes etc. It would make our little books obsolete in a minute. Also make a directors job easier at the bigger matches. One of the challenges might be internet access at every range. We don't even have power at ours yet. Of course if I built this I would donate a laptop and find a way to pay for the air card in it. Or tether it to my phone, or something.

I got discouraged when I met Greg at nationals. He didn't even understand what we were talking about with simple things. He kept answering questions that were not what the person asked. I don't think he's mentally capable of understanding even the simplest of computer programs. He really does need replaced.

Well in any case I'll build it and get it hosted. I'll let people know when its available.

Oh, and Pat, just send me one of those left handed fortner actions and I'll get on fixing up the big white stick!

[Jerry G]

Kris, It is a great idea and here comes the but. A scoring program to be used for a state match that would print out lables to put in a score book would be great. I should think hooking to the internet would need to be an option. I'm thinking the scores could be posted on the state association website.

Thanks for putting up with me at the nationals. For a guy that jumped out of a working airplanr, you ain't too bad.

You have Gregg pegged. He was a gunny which should clear a few things up for you.

[Ferret Master]

Need to keep state associations out of the mix. Most aren't tech savy enough to handle it and would want payment to do so. Already cost a fortune to run a state championship match. That's why a lot of folks are just running a registered match or a regional and thus don't have to pay the state association. How about running it through this forum? Standardize on a format for reporting and just sending the file to a results page. The PDF's that have been posted for results recently seem to work fine.
Ferret Master

[OldRanger]

Need to keep state associations out of the mix. Most aren't tech savy enough to handle it and would want payment to do so. Already cost a fortune to run a state championship match. That's why a lot of folks are just running a registered match or a regional and thus don't have to pay the state association. How about running it through this forum? Standardize on a format for reporting and just sending the file to a results page. The PDF's that have been posted for results recently seem to work fine.
Ferret Master

I was thinking of just making a 'reports' section. You could pull up your individual scores (maybe formatted to cut out and fit in your book), or you could pull up a match (formatted to be printed and mailed to Greg?). Once the data is in there is no limit to how you can pull it up and print it out.

A scoring program to be used for a state match that would print out lables to put in a score book would be great.

Thats pretty easy to do. Just another format for printing as far as my program is concerned. Labels can be tricky because there are a million different formats to them. But either reformatting them or making specific ones isn't all that hard. I would love to get it down to the point where folks could use it as a tool to help them do their jobs better, thats what a good programmer always strives for.

And Jerry, I gotta get my pictures up here. Got a great one of you slacking off as usual ;)

[Bob259]

.............
And Jerry, I gotta get my pictures up here. Got a great one of you slacking off as usual ;)

Better do it quickly as I heard Fabian was going to take him back to Ireland. He is just waiting on his new Leprechaun clothes and he needed to learn the language first!

[Jerry G]

Bob, you will pay.