Marauder or other cheap air gun for indoor practice

[gregw72]

With the ammo shortage going on I have found that I am not shooting my 1712 as much as I would like. Figure it is time to start looking seriously at an air rifle for practice as pellets are not hard to get. Want something that "feels" like the 1712 and not some 10m tricked out gun. Also do not want to drop $1500 on some fancy PCP. I have tried a RWS34 in the past and the double recoil made shooting groups harder than it needed to be, but the rifle fit perfectly. I have also tried a FWB300... great shooting gun, but it really didn't feel like my 1712 and eventually sold it. Plus, the springers make my dog go nuts, which makes my wife go nuts, so those are out. I currently have a Daisy single stroke pneumatic. Sucker shoots really good and the trigger is nice now that I have stoned it, but the stupid pump lever is right where my support hand is, so it is not optimal. Looks like the answer are one of the PCP rifles. The marauder seems to get a lot of praise for being quiet and accurate, but I wonder how narrow that front forearm is even on the new synthetic stocked versions. No one locally sells them, so I cannot get my hands on one. You guys had experience with one of those or another <$600 setup that would fit the bill? Crossman Challenger looks interesting too, but the forearm on that looks wide and flat for 10m shooting with accessories. Help!

[cedestech]

Beeman R7/ HW30s, very nice trigger (rekord) and not hold sensitive (low power, about the same as a healthy FWB300). easy to cock and cheap to shoot.

[dustinflint]

I'm not sure how much they are new, but a new or used Air Arms S400 should be in your price range and the last one I held felt almost exactly like a Pharr stocked 1712. The triggers are pretty good too.

BUT... You'll get the same, or more, benefit a lot cheaper and a lot safer by printing a piece of paper with each animal scaled to your indoor distance and using some spent brass or screw studs and dry-firing your 1712. If your goal is to practice with a rifle that feels like your 1712, you can't do any better than the actual rifle with the actual trigger. That may not be what you're looking for but I believe dry-firing the best way to practice, especially indoors.

Dustin

[ter]

The AA 410 is pretty close, and possibly in your budget as a used rifle. The Daystate Huntsman is really close to a 1712, but the price is closer to a grand for even a used one. I have a Huntsman Regal and it is pretty much the same as the 1712. I actually prefer the Regal to the 1712. Excellent quality and backyard friendly. Given CenterX is 1000 bucks a case, cost is subjective on a 1000 dollar air rifle and 5000 rounds of pellets for 100 bucks.

[OnaginOffagin]

Not to hijack this thread, but the ammo shortage is no joke, and I believe threatens the entire sport. Several years ago, my indoor position club, a twelve lane, fifty foot range built in 1946, was on the verge of collapse with only four members. We cashed in an old certificate of deposit and bought six club Ruger Mark III target pistols, and started a pistol night....and it was a stroke of genius! We instantly shot up to over forty members (much easier to buy a Ruger target pistol for $400 than a Anschutz position rifle for $4000). Year before last, we wanted to increase the rifle participation at the club, so we started a "light rifle" night, during which we allowed any .22 rimfire rifle on the line as long as it was safe to operate.....we had kids shooting from cushions, grandfathers shooting from benches, and a full four relays for "light rifle night," with our overall memberships at about 100. Year before last....just before the ammo supply dried up at the local hardware stores and Bi-Mart.... but this winter we suffered the full effects of the ammo shortage. Our "light rifle night" went from four relays to 1/2 relay, our pistol shooters are down in numbers -- and pushing anything they can find through their bores, Thunderbolt, Amscor, American Eagle....anything that will feed and fire....and our "heavy rifle," Anschutz Target night is also down..... our regular memberships now hover around the forty mark, and are falling.....

So, what are we doing in desperation? We're gonna add air rifles to our light rifle night, and see if we can get more people through the door...... we're gonna have a very unique course of fire for the airguns: 10 shots each at two official 50' light rifle bulls, and thirty "silhouette targets" (three runs of 10 air rifle chickens) on portable rails. At a "fun night" and the end of this year, we set the chickens up and let the kids shoot at them with our loaner air rifles....they loved it. So I understand the thrust toward air guns.... all my practice is with my old RWS Model 75 and/or dri-fire with my 1712. Whatever caused the shortage? I hope it clears up someday soon....because if it doesn't, air gun competition is gonna be the only game around..... And if it doesn't? At my relatively advanced age, I probably won't be very competitive regardless of what ammo and gun I shoot....so It's getting harder for me to justify popping $700 a case for relatively decent ammo (Eley Club). And the top notch rounds, Tenex, Center X, and similar are out of the question entirely on my fixed income, and with the moderately priced Wolf and Aquila not available anymore... I sometimes wonder if it isn't time to sell the Annies and just plink with an air gun...... If nothing else, only rich guys will be on the line soon!

[gregw72]

Thanks for the replies so far. I know the Air Arms stuff is good, but I was trying to see if there were a "cheaper" alternative out there. I never thought I would see the day when I drop $1500 on a 1712 and $650 on optics and cannot even find ammo to shoot it. They are selling Federal 525 bulk pack on the net for what I usually pay for Eley Target or Wolf MT (which is all gone) and used to be my go to practice ammo. Cannot afford to practice with better stuff as the last poster replied. At my club all competitions are down in participation. I also shoot IDPA and with no one being able to get powder, shooters aren't showing up. These are bad times and with the presidential elections coming up in 2016 and Hillary likely to run, I think the shortage is going to extend. VP of Sierra was just interviewed last month about the 22LR shortage. He said that based on the number of folks that had a 22LR there are in the US that if they all wanted a 500 round brick of ammo, it would take the combined manufacturer's 1.92 years to fill the orders! Maybe I am gonna have to open the wallet bigger and get a better air gun if that is the only way I can keep tuned up. Yeah, you are right about dry firing... but I miss seeing the results.

[ter]

I ordered a "case" of 5000 pellets yesterday for 84.00 delivered. Fire 2 cases and the $1000 rifle is "free", compared to shooting wolf through a 1712, and of course the air rifle will hold it's value. Another option is a springer, AA TX200. No need for a pump or tank with that model. I have a compressor and tank, so PCP for me.

[fartsinpublic]

I have been considering a better air rifle (my kid and I share his kid-sized Crossman) to shoot under the house.

Ter, what kind of compressor (and tank) do you have? I have an old scuba tank, and a large upright shop compressor, but I doubt it'll ever get me close to the pressures that PCP rifles typically run at, but I think I would prefer to get a PCP like the Maurauder. (Less concerned about matching stock shape, fit, etc., to another rifle)

Cheers,

Pat

[gregw72]

Ok, I get your reasoning on how the rifle "pays for itself" in short order. My question is now which model of the AA400/410 do I get? There are several models. Also, is the AA S200 out of the question.

[GTKF]

I have an S400 carbine in poplar, picked up used 2 years ago for 3.25 in great shape. This past fall I found an S510 rifle in walnut for 725.00. The finish on the poplar is nicer than the finish on the walnut (rather rough). The rifle is more like my 1712 and holds much better ,for me, than the lighter carbine.

On the least expensive side is an S400 in poplar probably 450.00 to 600.00 used. Add about 100.00 for walnut. add another 100.00 for S4/510 multi shot. The magazine is convenient but I prefer single loading (slows me down in matches)

Never handled one but I've read the S200 is on the small side

[ter]

I have been considering a better air rifle (my kid and I share his kid-sized Crossman) to shoot under the house.

Ter, what kind of compressor (and tank) do you have? I have an old scuba tank, and a large upright shop compressor, but I doubt it'll ever get me close to the pressures that PCP rifles typically run at, but I think I would prefer to get a PCP like the Maurauder. (Less concerned about matching stock shape, fit, etc., to another rifle)

Cheers,

Pat

For PCPs you generally need a fill to 3000psi. The supply tank should go to 4500 psi for maximum fills. This type of tank is a scba tank commonly used by foremen. A 80cu'ft tank costs about 800 bucks. Firehalls or some paintball placed will fill the tank with a special high pressure compressor. These compressor generally cost 3K and up, so it is better to have a tank filled for 10 bucks. There are cheaper solutions but dry air from a good compressor is best. Scuba tank does not have the excess capacity and it will need filled very often.

[ter]

Ok, I get your reasoning on how the rifle "pays for itself" in short order. My question is now which model of the AA400/410 do I get? There are several models. Also, is the AA S200 out of the question.

I also think the AA S200 is too small, I was suggesting the TX200 that is a springer rifle with no need for air tanks. AA makes many models, so selection is up to the application. I think for silhouette the AA410SL extra FAC is best. Pellets are a PIA to load, so I prefer magazines when the timer is moving (400 is single shot, 410 is magazine fed), the side lever (SL) is really smooth, extra FAc is a bigger air tube for energy levels in excess of 12FPE. The SL models will have an adjustable wheel that controls the tension of the hammer spring, thereby adjusting velocity. If you adjust the screws correctly the AA410 will have a better trigger than a 1712. 510 series is ambidextrous, I prefer a true RH.

[OnaginOffagin]

I already have an RWS Model 75 match springer for silhouette practice, but I'm thinking seriously of picking up the Crossman Challenger 2009 or the Crossman MAR 177 in addition to it....not so much for silhouette practice but for shooting our indoor gallery league! A PCP lends itself more to position work. A match airgun will shoot at 50', and develop great habits re follow-through and trigger release.... But the most important reason? The ability to again afford to practice before match night! I used to shoot one night a week for score, and three nights a week for practice....but who can do that anymore? Who can afford it? This way, I can save my high priced smallbore ammo for outside......

[tulsatime]

If you want to go light on the $$$ spent and even lighter on the noise of a pcp non - shroud version you could get a umarex fusion co2 bolt air rifle. It's a pleasure to shoot indoors and it's silent for outdoors...neighbors. I got mine for $137 from Buds online and it's a pleasure to shoot. It's a low end unit versus the others listed but you can get about 50 good shots on a co2 charge.

[caseyboy]

Hi All,
Indoor air rifle practice is the way to go in my opinion. Over the course of a year (2012), I went from AA to Master in both smallbore rifles and also earned both smallbore Grand Slam pins. That year I shot the air rifle 4 to 5 times a week as well as dry-fired my Walther hunter rifle. I shoot a hunter in both smallbore classes. The rifle I used was a Daisy 953 with a cleaned up trigger with the adjustable sear mod. I could easily set the trigger to crisp and safe 2 pounds. I put a couple of collar clamps on the muzzle weight to get the weight forward as well as lengthened the LOP and added a Morgan adjustable pad. The rifle liked the RWS Basics and the RWS Hobbies. I easily shot 2 sleeves that year. Off a bench at 10 meters, the rifle could put all the pellets shot into one hole. That year I learned the benefit of a good hold, trigger release and follow through. It took a lot of pellets from a 450fps air rifle to learn how to hit what I was pointing at. Over the past year, my scores have been slumping. Time to get back to shooting an air rifle. I treated myself and bought a Weihrauch HW97 in 177. The Canadian de-tuned version that only shoots 500fps. I also bought the standard mainspring so that I can boost the speed to 900fps or there abouts if I wanted to start air rifle silhouette at my club. I shoot at the swingers I have and 500fps hits the rams, but it takes about 1 and a half turns of the turret to get there One doesn't really need a high end air rifle to practice with. A lot can be learned with a moderately priced air rifle. An adjustable trigger is nice to have, but a 1000fps magnum in not necessary. A 500fps model is quiet, safer and doesn't fragment the pellet badly where lead dust issues would become a concern. The "dwell" time of the pellet is a bit longer at the slower speed so it forces you to follow through.
caseyboy