Some rules for smallbore standard rifle seem unfair

[jaja]

Is it just me or do some of the rules for smallbore standard rifle seem unfair. I am a newbie and I haven't shot in one single silhouette tournament yet. With that being said, I am trying to get my equipment ready so that it fits me so that I can shoot the best that I can. I want to compete but it doesn't seem to me that the playing field is level for everyone because of the way some of the rules are written. Let me explain: the scope can not be more than 2 inches above the rifle as measured from the top of the receiver to the underside of the scope tube. What if you are a very large person with a very long neck and you need the scope to be more than 2 inches above the receiver so that it properly fits you? In this case you have to fit the gun rather than have the gun fit you. How about this rule: The buttplate or recoil pad may not extend below the lower line of the stock. I'm finding that I have to put the gun on top of my shoulder rather than into my shoulder where it is more stable. If I was allowed to have the buttplate or recoil pad extend below the lower line of the stock it would fit me much better. Some people have the recoil pad fit right into their shoulder simply because of the way their body is shaped and they, therefore, reap a benefit from this rule. In all shooting sports you need to have the gun fit you. It shouldn't be the other way around where you need to fit the gun as dictated by the rules. One final thing, I noticed that some people can rest their support arm on their hip while others have to use their rib cage to support the rifle. This in and of itself isn't fair. Shooting off your hip is a more stable platform than shooting off of your rib cage. Why not have everybody shoot off of their rib cage since everyone can rest the rifle on their rib cage but not everyone can reach their hip. Competition embodies the notion that the playing field should be level. I think the rules need some adjustments or then again maybe it's just me. I'd like to hear some other people weigh in on this topic who have been shooting for a while.

[cedestech]

Insert popcorn eating smiley here...... (fwiw, you are not the first "large" person who has had problems with rifle fit..... the rules have been stable for a long time though....)

[ldholton]

Well you must be 7' tall I am a bit off the norm and don't like my scopes mounted very high off the bore , all depenpends on how high a rise the stock has on it. I like a soild "cheek weld" some like a more strait up head, they like the taller mounts . I don't rest my elbow on anything , I shot more of a strong hand style . Myself I shoot much better that way. Many think that a 36x scope is so much better and = morte hits than say a 16x for some it does for others not so much. I proved to myself x's don't make much difference for ME I shoot almost as many on avarge with 6x as I did 18x To my way of thinking if you have yet to shoot a match (or anything ?) set you up a gun to best of your liking that is with in specs. of the rules and roll with it for a while . You like everyone eles that has played this game will make changes and experiment a LOT !! some will work for the better some not so. Now this come s from a guy who's is over 6'4" 37" sleeve lenght and 38" imseam. And working on a belly to rest my elbow on , yeap it's growing with age I know a bit about beeing longer than average and adapting .

[jaja]

I see what you guys are saying, but just because the rules have been around for a long time doesn't mean they are fair. I see rules getting changed all the time in various sports to keep the playing field level. Why shouldn't smallbore standard rifles rules also evolve in an effort to keep the conditions equal for all competitors?

[cedestech]

I see what you guys are saying, but just because the rules have been around for a long time doesn't mean they are fair. I see rules getting changed all the time in various sports to keep the playing field level. Why shouldn't smallbore standard rifles rules also evolve in an effort to keep the conditions equal for all competitors?

Not to be a complete arse but life isn't fair.... the rules have been modified to their current format to make things as even for as many people as possible.

There are ALWAYS exceptions to the standard, if you fall out side that then you have to adapt.

FWIW, if you have a non-standard rifle I don't think there is a match director in the country that is going to turn you away. If you start shooting master scores maybe....

Get what you have together and go shoot. Unless you are some unreal natural talent then your equipment will be the last thing holding you back for a while.

[ldholton]

Um a level playing fiels They could have just one approved rifle . same stock . barrel lenght & weight , trigger , scope , you get the idea . be carfule what you wish for . Not to be an A** but you said you never shot a match yet ? and thinking the rules should be changed

[jaja]

Again, I see what you are saying but I would respectfully disagree that they have been modified for as many people as possible. For example, how many people can get their elbow to their hip. Furthermore, what does pulling the trigger in a match have to do with making the conditions equal for the match. If I go shoot in one match or 100 matches the rules are still unfair in that I still have a rifle that doesn't fit me properly. Also, having just one approved rifle would not solve the problem; rather, you would have numerous people that would try to "fit a rifle" rather than have the rifle fit them. In essence,and under the current rules,there still would be those individuals who would benefit simply because their body type happens to fit the rifle. Why not modify the rules further so that everybody can have a rifle that fits them? In my mind this would be the fair thing to do. Why should some individuals have an unfair advantage simply because they were born with a certain body type that, quite by accident, happens to allow their rifle to fit them. While life may be unfair, participating in a sport should not be!

[Jerry G]

Check the rule that tells how far from the center of the bore to the toe of the stock. That may give you the wiggle room that you can live with. Many shooters have the butt of their rifle very high on their shoulder and shoot AAA and master scores.

[dustinflint]

There are lots of rules in the silhouette rule book that are stupid and unnecessary, but you seemed to have hit on some that are not; and those particular rules are certainly not "unfair."

Here is the deal, the rules you have cited are not rules for "rifle fit," they are rules to make sure that the rifles we shoot are normal rifles and not something specific for the game. For example, there used to be a type of rifle legal for silhouette called a "chin gun" where the scope was high off the reciever and offset from the center of the bore. Shooters rested their chins on top of the stock and it made for a rifle that was easier to shoot offhand. The silhouette committee didn't like the chin guns and rules were put in the rule book to make them illegal. The scope height requirement is one of those rules. Also, the scope height restriction keeps one from being able to use the stock as a de facto palm rest (palm rests are against the silhouette rules). In Smallbore, the rules dont allow us to shoot target guns.

As far as "fitting" a standard rifle within the rules, you should easily be able to comfortably fit a rifle to your body without the scope being more than 2 inches above the reciever. I shoot my scopes high and they are nowhere near the limit of the rules. Also, you are allowed to change stocks to something with more drop in the heel if you want, so you can easily get something that fits that is within the rules without having to offset the butt pad. Most shooters shoot one rifle in both standard and hunter class that must meet the hunter rules, which are more restricted. Even within the hunter rules, there is no problem for the biggest or the smallest shooters to properly "fit" a rifle within the rules.

If the length of pull on your rifle is correct, you should have no problem fitting your rifle within the rules as long as you are willing to shoot it like a rifle. If you cant, you should change your stock, because it doesn't fit you properly.

As far as the comment about not allowing people to place their elbow on their hips because not everyone can do it, I kind of hope you were kidding. That's like playing a football game and not allowing some players to run as fast as they can because not everyone is as fast or making some shooters run a lap around the range before they shoot because their heart rates are lower than the other shooters.

I hear lots of shooters make excuses why some shooters are better - that shooter is better because he's taller; that shooter is better because she is shorter; that shooter is better because he is on beta blockers; that shooter is better because she gets high before every match, etc. I even had a shooter tell me that female shooters are better because they are used to carrying their babies on their hips, which simulates the shooting position (which didnt explain those females without kids that are good shooters... whatever). It is all ridiculous.

The bottom line is that most (not all) of the best shooters simply enjoy shooting more than the other shooters and they shoot more and get better. Of course, there is always natural talent for shooting that plays a big part. You have to put in a LOT of time working on things like position, timing and hold if you want to be really good at this game. You are not going to be comfortable with your rifle until you shoot it A LOT and make small changes and shoot A LOT more and make more small changes. It's not about the rules; it's about putting the time in.

If you really just cant put up with the rules, might I suggest Target and Open air rifle silhouette... There is no scope height restriction and you can use a fully customizable stock and make the rifle fit just like you want!

Dustin

[jaja]

I don't believe your analogies about running fast or slow or having a heart beat that is either fast or slow are valid analogies. The fact is all the competitors are running and have beating hearts; the essence is the same. However, resting the rifle on your rib cage, or hip, or on buffalo sticks for that matter are in their essential elements different; that is, they are all different resting platforms some of which are more stable than others. In any case gentlemen, I appreciate your input. I'll see what I can do to adapt to the rifle as ludicrous as that seems to me. If I just can't get the rifle to fit I guess I can always go to a 3-position rifle with all the bells and whistles.

[ter]

There are sight height limitations in 3P and air. I think it is 60mm? So a tad more than 2 inches. That is what I recall, I may be wrong. I want to change the rules to make the turkeys bigger.

[ldholton]

[quote="jaja"]I don't believe your analogies about running fast or slow or having a heart beat that is either fast or slow are valid analogies. The fact is all the competitors are running and have beating hearts; the essence is the same. However, resting the rifle on your rib cage, or hip, or on buffalo sticks for that matter are in their essential elements different; that is, they are all different resting platforms some of which are more stable than others. In any case gentlemen, I appreciate your input. I'll see what I can do to adapt to the rifle as ludicrous as that seems to me. If I just can't get the rifle to fit I guess I can always go to a 3-position rifle with all the bells and whistles.[/quote]
You have never said just how big a boy are you ?

[Dee]

I am 6'4" tall and I don't have 2" under my scope to the receiver. As for the butt pad that is why many of us use stocks that have a deeper drop in the butt pad instead of a straight style butt stock. These stocks also have a larger cheek weld area and a bigger palm swell in the grip area. These are .22 rifles so having it ride up on your shoulder a bit isn't that big of a deal. Even with the stocks I mentioned my butt of the stock is still high on my should and it isn't even a problem with my High Power rifle that uses they same stock.

As for the ribs versus the hip that is just a matter of body size. I will never get my elbow to rest on my hip and if you see me doing that call 911 as something is wrong. You just have to learn how to shoot using what you have to work with. The little short women with hips can really get a good rest on the elbow to the hip when they kick it out there. Just the way it goes and one of the best does this but she doesn't always win, just most of the time. Any style can win if you can learn to shoot within your physique limitations. There are lots of really good shooters that are tall and can't get a elbow to the hip. So focus on what you can do to improve and not why you think it will hold you back.

National Match AR15s are all just about identical so they manage to adjust to make it work regardless of their body size/shape and it is a big competition.

One thing you could look into if you are that tall or lanky with long arms is that you can increase the length of pull while dropping the butt stock down even further as it is extended out while still being inline with the stock itself.

Go to a few matches and see what others have done to try and get the best fit for themselves on their rifles it will give you some ideas you probably aren't thinking of right now.

Just have fun and shoot. You aren't going to be kicking everyone's ass right off the bat elbow or ribs, butt stock or not, scope height or not. So try it before you worry to much about those things. I actually had risers under my rings at one time to get a more upright head position but eventually got rid of them to get a better cheek weld and allowed the stock to ride a little higher on my shoulder.

All those things are not what is holding my scores back from improving. I am by not practicing enough. And I am Master in all 3 Air Rifles and Hunter Smallbore. So you can succeed if you try


Dee

[xpilot]

IMHO.........You would be best served by purchasing a case of ammunition. By the time you have used up that case practicing and have a few matches under your belt, you will have a better idea of what works for you. We have had National champions of all sizes using these rules. I don't think the "rules " will hinder your quest.

[cedestech]

IMHO.........You would be best served by purchasing a case of ammunition. By the time you have used up that case practicing and have a few matches under your belt, you will have a better idea of what works for you. We have had National champions of all sizes using these rules. I don't think the "rules " will hinder your quest.