A Barrel De-Resonator?

[teetertotter]

My 452 American is not bedded and wonder if a De-Resonator will work or if just a gimmick? Is it worth trying on a non bedded rifle? What are peoples thoughts?

I don't want a highly experienced person at our club bed my 452 American out of the box, with action screw adjustments, that all ready gets nice groups at 100 meters. I have read bedding can do more harm than good.

A Barrel De-Resonator worth a try in my case?

[Trent]

KevinBear here on this site swears by them. They do what they are supposed to do as far as absorbing vibration. One of the most common bow stabilizers for competition actually uses the rifle deresonators on custom carbon fiber rods attached to the box. They must work well cause they are used by a lot of tournament archers.

[teetertotter]

Got it.....Thanks!! Ordered this evening and will test it in 2 weeks after vacation.

[Gleedaniel13]

Got it.....Thanks!! Ordered this evening and will test it in 2 weeks after vacation.

Are you done on testing it. Can you share what are your observation with it?

[teetertotter]

I was on vacation the past week and a half and got back Monday. I did not pick from our local source until Wednesday eve. We had our Thursday eve match and not enough time to experiment with darkness settling in much earlier. It is supposed to be not that warm out today.....65F, but will be giving it a tryout at the 60 meter mark for starters. My CZ 452 American is not bedded for your information and the rubber dampener will be positioned about 1 inch from the wood forehand stock. If my barrel were bedded, then would be out towards the end of the barrel. I plan to position the dampener at 1" and 2" after I have shot 2 groups without the De-Resonator off sandbags. Whether there is improvement or not, I will keep the dampener on as want more weight.

This Saturday's match is our end of season. Then start up paper indoor January for 4 months.

[teetertotter]

I LOST the barrel De-Resonator. Last Thursday eve coming home from the range, I had both front windows open in my Mustang with high winds going 65mph. I thought I saw something fly out the window, but was not sure. Then I heard something slide down between the seat and door panel and figured it must be the De-Resonator. I never bothered to check when I got home that evening I checked Sunday and nothing fell between the seat and door side panel. Not sure if I will order another De-Resonator right now. When I do, will test and report. Sorry.

[steve b.]

You can save your cash. The moment the rifle is held in the offhand position, where there is motion, even so slight, to the rife during the firing sequence that any harmonic gain by controlling barrel oscillations will be lost due to movement.

By holding the rifle, you are allowing the barrel react to your movement at the same time it vibrates.

Tuners and such work when a rifle is set in a rest, such as in benchrest.

s.

[Trent]

I LOST the barrel De-Resonator. Last Thursday eve coming home from the range, I had both front windows open in my Mustang with high winds going 65mph. I thought I saw something fly out the window, but was not sure. Then I heard something slide down between the seat and door panel and figured it must be the De-Resonator. I never bothered to check when I got home that evening I checked Sunday and nothing fell between the seat and door side panel. Not sure if I will order another De-Resonator right now. When I do, will test and report. Sorry.

Evidently it couldn't DERESONSATE the wind.

[kevinbear]

I started using them about 10 years ago, a 700 I had at the time grouped two very tight clusters about an inch apart, the de-resonator completely eliminated the problem. A fellow BR-50 shooter explained to me a few years ago why they work, as the bullet travels down the barrel it creates what is known as the third harmonic wave. The scientific explanation of it will make even the most enthusiastic shooter eyes glaze over in a couple of minutes.
http://www.physicsclassroom.com/mmedia/waves/harm3.cfm

Barrel de-resonators lessen the wave so regardless of when the bullet exits the muzzle they will always be closer together than they would be without one. In spite of what you may have read or heard measure the barrel and divide by 3, center the de-resonator one third back from the muzzle{24" barrel center it 8" back from the end}, BTW this vibration in the barrel occurs regardless of the position of the gun, offhand or benched.
Scores of articles and papers have been written on this subject by people with masters degrees in physics, they all agree the phenomenon exists and is applicable as it applies to rifle barrels.
My experience has been mixed, they seem to work better on skinny barreled centerfires better that any other guns which makes sense because they are more susceptible to barrel "whip" than thick varmint barrels. That being said I've never had a gun that I was not able to improve the accuracy of by putting one on the barrel.
Kb

[teetertotter]

Thank you Kevin......I did get another one ordered last evening. I will pass your information onto another fellow that uses, as he may not have the correct positioning on his barrel. I asked him a couple weeks ago if it made any difference and shrugged his shoulders. He apparently has not tested with or w/o. I appreciate sharing your experience and my $10.00 replacement incl shipping, should arrive Wednesday shipped by Zanders to local sporting goods I deal with.

Another note: Our Wednesday morning group was shooting Silhouette all last month. I'm there to open up and help with anything plus shoot along with them. One month they shoot trap, next is cowboy action, HP...etc. These fellows are truly gun enthusiasts with so much experience. One of the fellows who is the same build as me, 6foot, 200lbs, long arms, etc., said I should try his custom .22LR. The first thing I felt was the comfort in shooting his rifle. He had a 1 inch thick rubber recoil pad that made all the difference in the world in butt stock length. Two weeks later, he installed my recoil pad that trap shooters use. I gave him a brick of Aquila Match Rifle. There is still hope to increase my scores..........

[steve b.]

The problem with this statement:

BTW this vibration in the barrel occurs regardless of the position of the gun, offhand or benched.

Is that that pattern is inconsistent from shot to shot because you are holding the rifle. Your body is absorbing the vibrations different every time you pull the trigger.

This is why rifle location is so important in BR. you can't randomly change position of the rifle on a front and rear rest; it will move your groups. If you slightly change your shoulder pressure on a BR rifle, you groups will scatter.

So the idea of tuning a rifle that you are holding is comical.

[teetertotter]

Kevinbear, are your calculations based on a bedded, non bedded and free floating barrels as to the 1/3 location from muzzle end where the De-Resonator should be positioned? Does it apply to all 3 barrels mentioned?

The De-Resonator I lost, said if barrel was bedded, position it up front on barrel. If non bedded, position 1 inch or so in front of forehand stock.

Just some questions.

[kevinbear]

That is for free-floated barrels however I have a 541-T that has the last 2" of the forearm bedded and it improved the accuracy of it as well.

[teetertotter]

Okay, we will still give it a try with my non bedded 452 American that is all ready very accurate with Aquila Match Rifle. Appreciate your information, kevinbear. I will have some De-Resonator positioning experimenting to do. I plan to report back next week. Our outdoor season ends this Saturday. Then indoor paper January through April once a week.

[jask]

When I was attempting to gain accuracy in my rifles, I did a lot of reading on vibrations of rods and the study of naval gunnery. A de-resonator is just an attempt to alter the vibration frequency, the exact same principle as a barrel tuner placed at the end of the barrel. Just for looks, I would prefer a barrel tuner. IMO, these are just crutches that should only be used if you cannot tune your ammo, i.e. smallbore. If you accurately tune your ammo, you will have just as good a load as an optimized tuner. There are also crutches that manufactures use in an attempt to minimize vibrations. One of those is "tip pressure". You should realize that tip pressure only works when the stock can ALWAYS place the same amount of pressure on the barrel. You get minimum changes with a synthetic stock and that is when manufactures use tip pressure. Bedding the tip is not going to produce the same conditions each time with a wooden stock and IMO, would be less effective than tip pressure on a synthetic stock.

Bedding an action is always a good thing. It makes the rifle and the stock act in the same manner each time the rifle is fired and enables the barrel to have the most consistent vibration pattern. Several events create vibrations, firing pin, primer, and bullet impacting the rifling and traveling down the barrel. IMO, the most important is the bullet impacting the rifling and the swelling of the chamber and bore. I made some comments in the high power forum on prepping cases. If the bullet does not enter the rifling dead on center each time, the vibration pattern is altered. For an accurate rifle, you must attempt to have the barrel to vibrate the same each time.

Tuners and de-resonators are for those who buy off the shelf ammo. Remember, if you change ammunition, you will have to retune the device for optimum performance.

The funniest thing I ever saw was at a match in San Luis, Mexico. A competitor had half of a pipe wrench duct taped to the end of his rifle.