SB Cowboy Silhouette

[Bob259]

Just would like to solicite input on everyone's thoughts on the current Cowboy Silhouette rules as written.

I find it disturbing that a single shot rifle can't be used and only those with a tube feed INCLUDING a semi auto are acceptable. Does anyone else find it odd why a Winchester low wall single shot, period rifle, is not acceptable?

Would be interested to hear opinions on this.

If you do, we need to work as a group to get the NRA to accept single shot rifles as acceptable in the SB Cowboy matches.

FYI I have a lever action tube feed, but know others, some Black Powder Silhouette shooters, who have single shot .22 rifles that would like to be included.

[genphideaux]

Bob259,

I submitted that same issue to the 2003 Cowboy silhouette committee and was sent a response that it was voted on and failed.

Maybe it is time to resubmitte it, all that is required is a letter not e-mail to the silhouette committe chairman and the specific sentance of: "I wish for this to be presented to the annual committe meeting and voted on", and your NRA number.

[Bob259]

Bob259,

I submitted that same issue to the 2003 Cowboy silhouette committee and was sent a response that it was voted on and failed.

Maybe it is time to resubmitte it, all that is required is a letter not e-mail to the silhouette committe chairman and the specific sentance of: "I wish for this to be presented to the annual committe meeting and voted on", and your NRA number.

Dawg,
I did that last fall and so did several others that I know. We were all told it was discussed but was not voted on. That's why I decided to bring it up here so we can get an early start this year. In my letters I even suggested the new wording, as not to just complain and offer no solution.
I realize that the big wheel turns slowly, but I believe it was real short sighted on the committee's part not to consider allowing the Single Shot period rifles (lever action, falling block, etc), but allowing semi autos with tube feeds to be acceptable.

[mordecai]

I got the distinct impression they were trying to accommodate all of the Walmart tubefeeders out there in the hands of new shooters looking into the sport.

I then wondered if they didn't like single-shots because of some inherent advantage they would have??? Is someone making a Martini like target rifle? I personally think they'd be fine, but it'd be interesting to hear their arguments against it.

[kevinpagano]

Semi-auto in Cowboy, you got to be kidding me. I think, and I do not shoot cowboy, that lever and a low wall is all that should be allowed. What are they thinking?

Kevin

[iceman]

You know, bolt actions and single shot rifles were on the scene long before the advent of lever, pump, and semi auto actions. You are using open sights that were available with the rifles, so what's the problem with bolts and single shots? Remember, 1873, 1892, and 1894 levers came into being in the late 1800's long after the taming of the west! As far as pumps and semi's they were just beginning to be known about.
So, why can't they compete (bolts and single shots)?

Leroy

[Jason]

Well I can say from the point of view of someone that took almost two years to settle on a gun that if bolt actions were allowed, even tube fed ones, that they would dominate the sport. Everyone that shoots the scoped rifle matches could just make another version of their competition gun with sights and presto, you'd have 40/40 shot fairly often. Even if you had to keep the rifle just as it came from the factory, it wouldn't be hard to grab an Anschutz sporter like the one in the picture below, remove the rear sight, put on a rail-mounted receiver peep, and rule the game.



The better stock design and better accuracy would make using a lever gun pointless if you actually wanted to win the match. In my own struggles in cowboy, I ended up caught between a Marlin 39A that shot great and had a wonderful trigger that I couldn't hold steady because of it's design and a Marlin 57 with a so-so trigger that didn't shoot all that great but I held steady thanks to the one-piece stock. I ended up choosing the Marlin 57 and now Mordecai owns the Marlin 39A. In my hands, neither could shoot like my 1712 or even my 452 Varmint does in my hands. If I could use an iron-sighted 1700-series Anschutz, I'd be very disappointed when I missed one of the big 1/2 scale targets we use in cowboy. By the same token, you can't just let all single-shot rifles in. There are too many different models and configurations out there to deal with, and it would only take missing one of them to have that model take over the sport and have way too many people complaining if the omission got fixed.

My personal opinion is that all three cowboy rifle silhouette matches should require lever actions and tube magazines. That makes the rules simple and easy to explain to new shooters. If someone wants to shoot the match, they can pick up a Henry at Wal-Mart and start shooting. One of the beauties of the match is that once you grab a Marlin 39 or other similar rifle and some better sights, you're decked out for the match. That's it. You have to keep the factory barrel and factory stock configuration. There's the "even playing field" match that someone seems to scream for occasionally in the scope rifle matches.

[lone ringer]

I do not have a problem with letting single shot or bolt action rifles that have tubular magazines into Cowboy Lever Action .22 matches but my feeling is that it would be easier to get the Silhouette Committee to add another class to include those kinds of rifles than to get them to add them to the current rules.

If you notice the tubular magazine is one characteristic that is included on all three of the disciplines.

There have been several requests to let the Savage 99 be allowed and because it does not have a tubular magazine it is not.

The reason they let semi autos and pump action rifles with tubular magazines is because the Chairman of the Silhouette Committee Bill Miller back in those days recognized the .22 matches as something a lot of people would like to try more so than the center fire matches and wanted as many people as possible to participate with inexpensive rifles that could be bought over the counter like the Marlin semi auto and all the pump action .22 gallery rifles, it probably would have been wise for them to include the single shot and bolt rifles with tubular magazines as well.

[jnyork]

I smell this leading to an equipment race that will totally spoil the sport, much as what has happened in other forms of silhouette. Silhouette started out as a simple game that could be enjoyed by the average joe with his hunting rifle. Look at it now!!
It seems that no matter what the rules call for in the way of equipment, there is always someone agitating to change the rules to allow his particular type of gun, coat, sights, etc. It is my understanding that the new Lever Action rules now allow for fiber optic front sights, if you can beleive it. Sure, just like ol' Tom Horn and Teddy Roosevelt used to shoot. Give me a break!!
Unless we are hell bent on ruining yet another silhouette game, I strongly recommend we leave the equipment rules the same, or it will totally go downhill never to return.
My opinion, freely given, and probably worth just what you paid for it!!

[Jason]

Maybe I should make a poll as a seperate post. I think I'll go do that.

[Jason]

Here's the poll that I posted in the cowboy forum. Go vote your conscience and post why you voted the way you did.

Should smallbore cowboy rules be changed?

[mordecai]

You know, bolt actions and single shot rifles were on the scene long before the advent of lever, pump, and semi auto actions. You are using open sights that were available with the rifles, so what's the problem with bolts and single shots? Remember, 1873, 1892, and 1894 levers came into being in the late 1800's long after the taming of the west! As far as pumps and semi's they were just beginning to be known about.
So, why can't they compete (bolts and single shots)?

Leroy

If I had to hazard a guess, I would suspect it's about the "era" of the sport. Cowboy Silhouette drums up images of lever guns at a time where settling the west inspired faster loading and more cartridges. My personal opinion is that lever-action falling-block type rifles fit this era, but venturing too far outside this kinda makes the game moot.

[Bob259]

mordecai, Here's what I posted in the poll forum that Jason started. I think you will find it just as you suggested and as I had originally suggested.

Just as a level set. I've attached below the original proposal that was sent to the NRA. As you can see it's not to open it up blindly but just to clarify and include the period single shot .22's.

If you agree I would suggest you copy and send into the rules committee for consideration. Hopefully this will clear up what was proposed and you will be in agreement.

Petition for Rule Change to Cowboy Lever Action Smallbore Silhouette
Equipment NRA Rifle Silhouette Rules - Section 3.1.3 C a


Overview:
We would like to petition the Rules Committee to consider the following changes to the rules for Cowboy lever action smallbore silhouette match equipment (NRA Rifle Silhouette Rules Section 3.1.3 C a) The current rules stipulate that only tube fed rifles are allowed to compete and do not allow for the use in competition of a single shot lever action rifle (e.g. Winchester Model 1885 .22). The Winchester 1885 rifle is a single shot rifle and a replica of that era. However, the current rule allows for the use of Semi-auto