Picking out a MS sporter weight Bolt gun!?!?!?

[dondlhmn]

I am wanting to get back into MS shooting...I shot a lot of IHMSA and NRA Hunter Pistol (scoped) in the past and was pretty competitve in those classes (shot as an NRA master and IHMSA International). I did shoot a little rifle MS, but never too seriously...mostly jsut for something fun to do and, given the passing of years, i don't even know if I could currently hit a target (but figure I probably can ). I already have a Remington 700 varmint barrel in 7mm-08 and am thinking seriously about buying a hunter/sporter rifle to shoot silhouette with and also to hunt with on occasion. It sounds like there are 2 or three manufacturers/actions/rifles that would fit the bill as per accuracy, but what would you guys recommend AND WHY, given that the following enters into MY PERSONAL equation when buying this rifle...Accuracy 55% (this sort of includes either a good trigger from the factory or a good one available aftermarket without breaking the bank), Looks/fit/finish 15%, Weight (gotta make the class and also be reasonable to carry) 10% and price 20% (Within reason....gotta be good bang per buck as I won't spend a fortune on a Cooper or any "semi-custom" gun like that...I think those types are nice, but overpriced and so prefer a decent shooting production gun.)

Just to sort of give an idea where my head is...Current bolt guns are:

(1) 1954 or so FN Mauser Supreme 30-06. I like it a lot and it is a nice classic with average wood and a custom engine turned bolt, but I rarely shoot it.
(2) Ruger M77 in 7mm Rem Mag, integral scope mounts. Shoots OK, accuracy OK for the caliber, beats you up some, isn't especially pretty. I like it OK, but it would be the first gun to be sold if need be.
(3) Another Ruger 77...this one a round top in 30-06. Not especially pretty, but OK. Shoots pretty well. My go-to gun for most of my hunting.
(4) Kimber.22 that I think is or was called a "Classic". It is a Clackamas gun with a pretty nice finish on the metal and average (or SLIGHTLY better) wood. When I came back from Germany, I brought a couple of High dollar guns..ie" 54.18 MSED and another Anschutz. Discovered that the Kimber would outshoot both German guns with about any ammo. Sold the Germans. Love my little Kimber and will leave it to my kid when I die.
(5) SAKO .243 in what may have been or still is called a "Classic". Shoots reasonably well, has GORGEOUS wood. VERY pretty gun....nice to look at and nice to shoot. Would probably NEVER sell it.
(6) Remington .223 heavy barrel varmint gun in a synthetic stock. I'm not a big fam of synthetic for aesthetic reasons, but agree that it is most always more stable and more accurate than the same stock in wood. Shoots pretty well, is heavy enough that it is about like shooting a rimfire. I'm kind of middle-of-the road on this gun in most respects.
(7) Remington 700 BDL Heavy Barrel varmint gun in 7mm-08. Shoots pretty good groups...fun silhouette gun, takes the rams down pretty reliably and can be shot all day without beating you up. Fairly pretty, but a little to "glossy" for my tastes. For me it is a keeper.

So..given all that...What is the current gun that you guys think would be the one to buy/shoot? I don't really need another hunting bolt gun and whatever I decide on will be used probably 85 to 95 percent for silhouette and for range monkeying/load development, etc. Oh...and I am leaning STRONGLY toward a 7mm-08 just for the sake of commonality and the fact that I already have about a gazillion cases for it. Some other caliber woud have to have some REALLY OUTSTANDING reasons to own in order for me to buy it. I can either look at post on here or you can email me at [email protected]

Oh, yeah...the budget for rifle, bases and rings is hopefully way under a grand (the farther under, the bette!). I intend to use a Leupold Vari-X 2, 4 to 12 power that I currently have with target turrets and a fine crosshair and dot in it.


Thanks in advance for any advice!!

[Jason]

Unless the Rem 700 in 7-08 just won't make even the standard rifle weight limit, I wouild just shoot if I were you, especially if you aren't sure how deep you want to get into highpower rifle silhouette. If it's just a few ounces over weight, you could always consider taking off a couple inches of barrel and putting a nice target crown on it. None of the other guns listed are suitable for the task, for various reasons, other than possibly the Sako. The 243 cartridge is a little on the weak end for knocking down rams reliably, though, and it would be a crime to ugly up that gun with a rebarrel if it's anything near my father-in-law's Sako 579 in appearance.

If you just have to buy a new gun for hunter class, I'd suggest buying a lighter version of that same rifle, probably ADL to save some weight, with a trigger job from a good gunsmith or an aftermarket trigger since you'd have a fair amount left to still fit under your spending limit. You might also consider one of the Savage rifles with their easily changed barrels, and then you could easy order whatever cartridge/taper/length barrel you want for it. I don't see a reason not to go with 7-08 since it sounds like you already have a full reloading setup for it. If you were starting from scratch, I'd probably suggest something in 6.5mm but that 7-08 is great, too. (Don't tell the guru I said it, though.)

[dondlhmn]

Well, it is not like I'm gonna die if I don't buy a lighter rifle for the hunter class, but I do want to shoot in that class and the 700BDL with the varmint barrel and the 6.5 - 20 Leupold Vari-X III weighs in right at 9.5 lbs...some scales show it at 9.4 lbs and it already has a pretty short barrel. It is far enough under the class limit weight of 10 pounds and 20 ounces that I NEVER have to sweat making weight of even doing some changes on the gun if I want to. Besides needing a light gun to meet the 9 pound limit for High Power Hunting Rfle is the best excuse I have right now for buying another rifle! I have shot the Sako .243 at 200 yard reduced targets and it does take the rams down OK there with only a few losses (rung targets), but I'm sure it would be, at best, VERY MARGINAL on the 500 meter rams. My nephew found me a nice Kimber Classic in 7mm-08, but it is like 900 bucks, plus some shipping and that sort of stuff. REAL pretty gun, but spendy and I have heard that the Kimbers just aren't what they used to be.....AND I am hearing that their customer service SUCKS and their attitude is the same. Also have heard of Kimbers that shoot 5 INCH groups and not much better. Granted there are some good ones around that shoot great, but buying one (especially at that price) is just too much of a pig in a poke for me..... Not to mention that at 5 pounds, 10 ounces it might be a little too light for anything but hunting/carrying on hunts, especially when the HP MS Hunting class can weigh up to 9 pounds...

[Joaquin B]

You might consider adding a barrel in either .260 Rem. or 6.5X47 mm Lapua for your Sako. Probably the cheapest way to go, and the wife will not notice another new gun in the safe... .

[Jerry G]

You know all the sneaky tricks Joaquin.

[dondlhmn]

You might consider adding a barrel in either .260 Rem. or 6.5X47 mm Lapua for your Sako. Probably the cheapest way to go, and the wife will not notice another new gun in the safe... .

I briefly considered that, but I like the Sako just as it is in .243 cal. and completely original and unchanged. Besides, if I did that, I would be wastiing a perfectly good reason (maybe excuse?? ) to buy another rifle! Not to mention that I have seen no GOOD, INARGUABLE REASON to go to either of those calibers over the 7mm-08....also I don't have dies, bullets or brass for either of those. I like the idea of having one caliber for both classes, anyway. I have considered changing the barrel on the Ruger that is now a 7mm Rem Mag over to a 7mm-08, but that gun is a long action and the 7mm-08 is a short caliber....I don't know how that would work out or if it is even reasonable or possible/practical, though I guess ANYTHING is "possible". Anyone ever done that? Comments?

Oh....My wife is pretty hard to fool...she is a AAA shooter that has set national (Hunter Pistol) records, likes guns, knows what is in the safe and can shoot better than most of the guys I know! Not to mention that she is the BEST spotter I have ever worked with......she also amazed the Jaegermeister that tested both of us for ability/competetence/accurracy shooting both rifles and shotguns when we got tested for our German hunting licenses. She even laughed when she turned 50 and I said it was time to trade her in for two "25s". Maybe I'm lucky she didn't just shoot me

A note in reference to an above suggestion about shortening the barrel on the Remington Varmint gun: I just re-read the rules for the Hunting Rifle class and they say no straight barrels, such as a varmint gun would have or maybe an old bench gun. That pretty much leaves out usiing my Rem 700 BDL 7mm-08 Varmint gun as the barrel does not have a "hunting style taper".

[Jason]

It doesn't have to have a hunting type taper. It just has to taper and be 26" or less long. As long as it's NOT actually straight (or reverse) taper, it's fine if it makes weight.

Edit: edited to add in the word "not" above that I meant to put in the first time.

[Innocent]

Jason,
I ran across this rule the other day while looking up some other stuff. I, like you, thought the taper direction didn't matter, but...3.1.1(e)
Barrel: A hunting style contoured barrel that tapers from chamber to muzzle. Bull barrels are not permitted.


Mary

[Jason]

Was a typo above.. meant to put the word NOT in there. It definitely has to taper down from chamber to muzzle.

[Bob Mc Alice]

Jasons advise was good even though he is missing out not shooting the 7-08. Your Ruger 77 has a magnum bolt face not suitable to the 7-08 cartridge. Your long action 77 in .30-06 could be fitted with a 7-08 barrel, I have done it. Buying a match barrel and paying some one to install it? In the long run getting a new rifle altogether may be cheaper.

Let's just cut to the chase. Go to Sportsmans Warehouse in Reno and get a Remington 700 SPS/ADL ?? 24"stainless 7-08. They are plenty accurate enough for silhouette shooting. They have them here for $469.00 with a cheap 3-9x Bushnell scope. Keep the plastic stock or get an aftermarket model that you like. I really like the HS Precision hunter model stock. Used original Remington wood stocks can be found on various web sites.The stock X-Mark trigger should be replaced with something better. You already have a good scope, all together you should still be within your budget and have a good rifle for high power hunter silhouette.

I think this rifle fits your "gotta be a good bang for the buck" criteria.

[dondlhmn]

My Remington 700 series rifles have always been pretty good to me...not the fanciest around, but I have no complaints. What kind of accuracy are any of you that have the following getting out of them:

700 CDl in 7mm-08

700 XHR in 7mm-08

700 SPS in 7mm-08

It seems that they have a pretty decent trigger nowdays and if a guy doesn't like the factory one, there are a couple of aftermarket triggers available..

Just for the sake of keeping things simple (I have a couple of 700 Rems already) I am thinking about buying one of those I have listed above. All are around 7.25 to 7.37 pounds or so naked and would still be under the 9 pound hunting class limit wiht just about whatever combination of bases/rings/scope I would put on it. The prices seem high to me, but then nowdays EVERYTHING seems high to me.....(old fart). Seems like the last time I bought a 700 it was like 300 bucks for a BDL version..

[kevinbear]

I just got a new SPS/ADL 7-08, what a wonderfully accurate little rifle right out of the box. I mounted a 3x9 on it the day I got it and shot my deer load at 300 yards at a gong, 5 shots looked like about 2". That deer load is Winchester cases and primers, alot of Varget and a 140 Nosler BT.
Like the guru I believe the standard 700 stocks are not the best for offhand shooting but the rest of the gun is PERFECT, my trigger went right down to 2 lbs after replacing the spring.
This will make everyone sick, a group of silhouette shooters here paid 345.00 out the door for 6 of these a couple of months ago {hot tip from Trent} at sportsmans warehouse.
Kb

[Bob Mc Alice]

I ended up with one of those , Kevin. Mine also shoots lights out. I put it in a Classic wood stock, installed an old style trigger and it wears a 12X Leupold with both knobs.

dondlhmn...I dont believe there is any inherent accuracy difference between the models you show. They all use basically the same action and barrel, only the stocks differ. Removing the pressure pad in the fore end of the stock for a full free floated barrel is a must for good accuracy. Feed them good hand loads and you can expect 1 to 1.5 MOA, sometimes much better. The Xmark trigger has mixed reviews. Some like it, some don't.

I also bought one of the SPS/ADL stainless 7-08 cheap scope combo 700's mentioned earlier for $469.00 last December. I sold the plastic stock and 3-9x Bushnell for $75.00 I found a nice shape used HS Precision camo stock with bottom metal for $250.00 . I installed an old style adjustable trigger and tuned it to 2.5 lbs. (thanks Marvin).I did a Leupold scope shuffle on a couple in my collection and put an older 8.5- 25X on it. IT SHOOTS A HALF MINUTE WITH MATCH QUALITY AMMO.

Yeah, I am with you about the old days prices. (old fart, too) Remember when ADL's had real walnut and polished blue steel?

[metalhead]

A very nice conversion Bob. Seeing old gun parts being put back to their intended use by a skilled craftsman is something that makes everyone feel good. Oh yeah. Nice looking gun !

[kevinbear]

Bob, I still have a bare action that needs a 7-08 barrel. hint hint