Advice needed on Anschutz model, barrel and action selection

[aliascraig]

Advice needed on Anschutz model, barrel and action selection small bore 22lr

I want to buy a small bore 22lr rifle for metallic silhouette shooting and for general purpose hunting use as well. As I am a left handed I wanted to try and select an Anschutz rifle which basically leaves the model 1416DKL. This is unfortunately only available in the standard weight barrel and has the action type 64. The more popular model with the hunter small bore metallic silhouette is the model 1710DHB as this has the heavy barrel and the better type 54 action. What I wanted to know is if the 1416 with the smaller barrel and the cheaper action is good enough to be competitive in MS as the catalogue claims to group at an average around 10 shot at 55 yards at around ¾ of an inch with good ammunition. The 1710DHB with the heavy barrel and the better action can apparently average 10 shot groups at ½” at 55 yards with better ammunition.

Is the ¾” accuracy good enough at 55 yards to say at the 100 metres and is this accuracy realistic from personal experience or do I need something better? Does the better accuracy come from the heavy barrel or the better action or a combination of both? Could I buy a heavy barrel and fit it to the 1416 DKL to improve the accuracy as I get the impression that this also fits into the type 64 action and is only a few millimetres larger in size so would just require some remove of wood and fitting by a gunsmith.

I wanted to get a rifle with the accuracy needed for MS but also wanted to ideally get a left handed rifle but if I need to buy the 1710 DHB to get the better accuracy then I will, even though they are nearly double the price of the 1416DKL.

Many thanks in return,
Regards,
Craig.

[Jetmugg]

The inherent accuracy of either rifle is not likely to hold you back in SB silhouette. There are Master class shooters who use CZ's, Savages, and even modified 10/22's. Either Anschutz is plenty accurate enough - a good trigger pull is probably more important.

As far as which Anschutz model to select - I think you might need to be careful with the 1710 HB models with respect to the overall weight. I don't know if it's possible to get a 1710 HB to make weight for Hunter class silhouette. I tend to think that it is not possible to make weight with a 1710 HB in a factory stock.

The 1712 is the "go to" model which would allow you to shoot in both classes, but being a lefty definitely limits your options somewhat.

SteveM.

[AZRifle]

Jetmug is correct, if you can afford it the 1712 is the best for the hunter class Anschutz rifle.

Jerry

[sgrayner]

Unfortunately, all the left-handed 1712 solutions I've found require a custom stock. If you don't have the time or dollars for that, Champion Shooters has a new left-handed 1416DKL (2173060) available for $850. I've shot several 64 Action rifles, and they've all been extremely accurate. Craig, sent you a PM.

Steve

[Jerry G]

I'm not sure what you say about the 64 and 54 actions is correct. The 1712 has an action that is neither 64 or 54 and I thought that was the case with all of the 1700 serries rifles.

If your rifle will shoot under 1 1/2 inches at 100 meters you should be good to go. Chances are that real good ammo will group tighter than that with most good target rifles.

[BCloninger]

There's no reason to fear a 64 action! The ones I've seen were great shooters, and in the Weatherby stock they're gorgeous. Dunno if Weatherby does a left handed version, but it's worth looking into since, besides the handsome wood, the stock is very well designed.

[aliascraig]

Thanks a million for your responses SteveM, Jerry, Steve and BCloniger. Yes I didn’t realize that the 1710 was too heavy for the hunter class, I was looking at the center fire specs so it looks like if I want to compete in the hunter class than I will need to keep the weight in mind. Jerry the 1712 looks like a nice rifle but as Steve mentioned I would have to take the monte carlo stock down or buy or make an aftermarket stock, not sure if this is allowed in the rules and by the looks of it this would bring you into the target class with the weight once scoped and with rings etc. I am in Australia and the agents who import Anschutz do not have any stock of the 1712 and have told me that Anschutz is not currently making these and they only make them in batches every couple of years. I suspect that they telling me lies as they are not too keen to stock models which would not be popular.

After thinking about it I guess that I will go ahead and buy the 1416 and see what it will shoot out of the box with the various target ammunition out there. I don’t know if you are allowed to bed the action and check the free floating of the barrel or if this will actually improve anything?

I guess that I don’t have to use the `best gun available’ as my first MS gun. After all it will be my ability which will limit me, not the gun. I didn’t realize that 1 ½” groups at 100 metres was sufficient. The 1416 are at a very good price at the moment (excess stock) so I guess that I will buy one of these and if I find that the rifle is limiting and if I really get into the sport I can always buy/import/build a better rifle later. From reading the various threads it looks like most of the MS have had several different firearms over the times and even appear to have several in their collection at present.

In regards to the categories, how do people shoot one rifle in both categories given that most rifles look like they will be too heavy for the hunter class? I got the impression that most people have a gun which is suited to both.

Regards,

Craig

[Boyd L.]

Craig,
I'm not certain if it's available in your part of the world, but oftentimes here a 1712 or 1710 sporter barrelled action can be purchased. This allows a custom stock for lefties and such, to be built. If you could go this route, you would have a stock to fit you (albeit right bolt, left cheekpiece) with the more robust action.
Either way, good luck.

[Finprof]

In regards to the categories, how do people shoot one rifle in both categories given that most rifles look like they will be too heavy for the hunter class? I got the impression that most people have a gun which is suited to both.
Craig

You guessed correctly. Lately folks ahve been building up "Frankenhunters", which barely meet the hunter rifle specs but are more like a target rifle. For example, take a 54:18 Anshutz, put on a lighter barrel with some taper, a Pharr stock and a 2 lb. trigger. Last year, when I started shooting silhouette, I only had a hunter rifle so I shot it in both classes. This year I got an 1808 stock 54:18 for standard class, but found that I still shoot the hunter better. It might have something to do with practice and familiarity.

[aliascraig]

Craig,
I'm not certain if it's available in your part of the world, but oftentimes here a 1712 or 1710 sporter barrelled action can be purchased. This allows a custom stock for lefties and such, to be built. If you could go this route, you would have a stock to fit you (albeit right bolt, left cheekpiece) with the more robust action.
Either way, good luck.

Boyd, If you have any contacts for an after-market or custom stock makers could you I please get you to pass on the details. I may be interested in something like that in the near future as importing a stock is no problems, its just the barrels, actions, triggers etc which are very heavily controlled both here in Australia(import) and from the USA (export). If I can find one ready made then I could get it fitted and finished off here. Unless I can find one locally.

Regards,
Craig.

[aliascraig]

You guessed correctly. Lately folks ahve been building up "Frankenhunters", which barely meet the hunter rifle specs but are more like a target rifle. For example, take a 54:18 Anshutz, put on a lighter barrel with some taper, a Pharr stock and a 2 lb. trigger. Last year, when I started shooting silhouette, I only had a hunter rifle so I shot it in both classes. This year I got an 1808 stock 54:18 for standard class, but found that I still shoot the hunter better. It might have something to do with practice and familiarity.[/quote]

Thanks for that. I might need to go and buy the official rule book here in OZ rather than just looking at the summary page on the Australian website but thought that these types of modifications would rule you out of the hunter class or is it the same over there and it just gets allowed by the scrutineers? Either way it looks like I may be better off just using a stock gun for now, such as yourself, and see where the future takes me. You never know.

Regards,

Craig.

[fwt1712]

Hi Craig,

the Australian rules are much stricter than in the US - the rifles we use (I'm in Tasmania) have to basically be factory rifles for hunter class.

You are right to think that mostly your skills will be the limiting factor.

The most likely candidates for you are the left handed 1416 or a left handed BRNO (CZ). Both will easily meet the accuracy levels we want and are good value for the quality you get (plus they should be reasonably easy to get here).

regards,
Nigel.

[Jetmugg]

In the USA, a hunter rifle does not have to be "box stock", or as-delivered from the factory. The current rules only require that a hunter rifle meets the weight, trigger pull, and dimensional requirements set forth in the rulebook. Custom actions are OK, custom stocks are OK, custom barrels are OK. As long as the finished rifle meets weight, trigger pull, and dimensional characteristics, the rifle meets the rules.

SteveM.

[ter]

All the advice is good in my opinion. The standard barrel 1710 will make the weight (US) as a hunting rifle with a reasonable scope like a Leupold 6x20. I would assume the heavy barrel would have a tough time with weight. In that case you could use it as a standard rifle. In some way it does not matter, as long as you are shooting matches, it is fun. Personally, I would get the 64 lefty, and add some weight to the 8.5 pound limit. As the others said, a 64 is a great gun to use. If you really enjoy the game, you can always get a 1700 series later. Generally, you get back most of the investment on gun trades, so financially it is not a big or permanent issue. Silhouette, and guns in general is a pretty inexpensive pastime. Good luck.

[aliascraig]

Thanks for that Nigel, SteveM and ter. Looks like I am off to get one of the discounted 1416 and see what it will shoot and worry about an `upmarket gun later’. Now for the 28 days plus wait

Nigel, are the hunter and target categories normally run concurrently, or are they run after the other? If so are you allowed to use the hunter rifle and hunter weight in both categories or do you need to add weight?

In addition, how many magazines do you need? I understand that you are only allowed 5 shot capacity magazines and I understand that the matches are usually two lots of twenty shots. Could you get away with 4 magazines and then reload between a 20 shot match?

Sorry for all the questions, just wanted to get prepared before I get to the range.

Many thanks,

Craig.