Not so new as before

[Innocent]

Nice work, I'll have to stop in and visit next time I come through one of my favorite Florida spots... the caverns.

Mary

[AZRifle]

Before you spend a lot of money on your 10/22...... Silhouette is a game best shot with a bolt action rifle. Not that you can't try but why?

Well, what bolt gun would you recommend where I could get better results for the $250 ($150 stock, $100 barrel) that I would put into my Ruger?
Regards, Ray

I can agree on the bolt action too. My suggestion would be to continue to practice and improve while saving your money for a good bolt action. You might get some better results from your 10/22 by investing $250 into it but, it still would not be a long-term match for an Anschutz or 40x. THe CZ452 is a very accurate rifle for much less but the trigger is lower quality as compared to the more expensive rifles. Kimber makes some good rifles but I am not certain about them overall, maybe someone else has experience or knowledg on them.

[rbrandes]

Well, This all started in that I wanted to test the 10/22 eTrigger at a silhouette match because that is where most of the trigger interest pointed towards.
I did not want to spend a lot of money and specifically I did not want to build or buy a rifle just for silhouette.
It seems this sport is as complicated as high power rifle and just as costly.
I will try to shoot a silhouette match with what I have just to see what it is like.
But I will probably stick with high power since I am all set up for that and have been doing it for over 15 years.
Regards, Ray

[Jetmugg]

Ray:

Please - I say "Go for it" with respect to the 10/22 and electronic trigger. The trigger mechanism is definitely a limiting factor with 10/22's. I have a 10/22 in a Boyd's Yukon stock that fits and feels great, only the trigger really limits the rifle. I also have a CZ 452 Varmint and an Anschutz 1712 FWT. That being said, there are times when I feel like I can shoot the 10/22 just as well as the other rifles. When you get in a good shooting rhythm, the semi-auto is a great friend. I feel like if you want to develop an electronic trigger for a 10/22, that the silhouette range is a great place to do it.

Many people know that Troy Lawton once used a 10/22 to win the national silhouette championships - so the potential is definitely there. Even if the electronic trigger doesn't "take off" in smallbore silhouette, there will definitely be a market for it. I'm sure the guys at RFC would like to have the option.

Do you have a working prototype yet?

SteveM.

[Another Dang 9]

Ray, not sure were your from but in Ridgeway Pa. they have a semi auto military rifle silhouette match.

[BlauBear]

A 10/22 certainly can compete in Silhouette! But if you want to market the e-trigger to Silhoutte shooters, take a hard look at adapting it to the CZ 452. Those are great rifles with primitive triggers, so there is a mrket. Another thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is that Hunter class rifles require a working safety, so test that very well. Early Timney replacements for the 452 had problems.

[TXCharlie]

The Sportsman's Team Challenge http://www.sportsmansteamchallenge.com/ uses the 10/22's.... You might want to try this match with your electronic trigger. The Kricotronic trigger was imported in the 80's on the Krico SB rifles. I am told Kregeskorte has designed and built a much better electronic unit, they had some conversations with an American manufacturer but nothing came to pass from these talks.

[rbrandes]

...Do you have a working prototype yet?...SteveM.

Steve,
I know Troy, but I didn't know he was a silhouette champ.
Yes, we have working prototypes. Two in fact. I have one and the designer has the other. The physical design was so good out of the box that all we are doing now is tweaking things.

It is a very nice trigger. You can adjust the pull from ounces on up just by re-arranging the springs. A second stage option is available. It breaks clean and crisp. Just as good as the Milazos in my AR's.
It is powered by a 9V battery and the drain is about the same as if the battery was sitting on the shelf when you aren't shooting. There is no on and off switch because we feel that if someone turns it off they may thing the gun is 'safe' when actually the capacitor is charged and the gun will fire. We are using the Ruger mechanical safety so there is no issue with that.
Regards, Ray

[rbrandes]

Ray, not sure were your from but in Ridgeway Pa. they have a semi auto military rifle silhouette match.

Originally from New Jersey, but now in the Florida Panhandle.
Regards, Ray

[rbrandes]

But if you want to market the e-trigger to Silhoutte shooters, take a hard look at adapting it to the CZ 452.

Sorry, not really interested in marketing "a" trigger to silhouette shooters, just working on this one for the 10/22.
Regards, Ray

[Another Dang 9]

Ray, not sure were your from but in Ridgeway Pa. they have a semi auto military rifle silhouette match.

Originally from New Jersey, but now in the Florida Panhandle.
Regards, Ray

If you go to camp perry I think the guy who runs it trys to have it the same time so others like you can try silhouette.

[ppkny]

Dang 9, I don't know what you are refering to at Ridgway about semi-auto silhouette match? I've shot at Ridgway and the only semi-auto match they have to my knowledge is for rifles listed in the NRA rule book under :

3.1.2 High Power Semi Automatic Military Rifle - Any center fire, self-loading rifle, as issued for general
service by the armed forces of any nation, or the same type and caliber of commercially manufactured rifle, having
not less than 4-1/2 pound trigger pull, with standard type stock. A. 6mm or larger caliber.

We are usualy shooting M1's or M1A's at this match, open sights on the Highpower course. I never heard of this being at Camp Perry.

This year Consolidated Sportsmen of Lycoming County PA is also offering these matches: http://www.consolidatedsportsmen.org/ Check out the Ridgway sight for their matches: http://ridgwayrifleclub.com/
I know their having a State Championship match for semi-auto's rule 3.1.2 on Junes 5, 2010.

ppkny

[Another Dang 9]

Thats my fault. I did not mean for it to sound as if they were shooting silhouette at perry. there not. I meant to mean Ridgeway. Sorry for any confusion. I did not know they were also shooting SAMR at CSLC either. I'll have to keep my eyes open for that one.

[AZRifle]

Well, This all started in that I wanted to test the 10/22 eTrigger at a silhouette match because that is where most of the trigger interest pointed towards.
I did not want to spend a lot of money and specifically I did not want to build or buy a rifle just for silhouette.
It seems this sport is as complicated as high power rifle and just as costly.
I will try to shoot a silhouette match with what I have just to see what it is like.
But I will probably stick with high power since I am all set up for that and have been doing it for over 15 years.
Regards, Ray

Well, it goes back to the basic, play with what you have. You obviously know about ther sport and don't seem to want to be dedicated to Smallbore Rifle Silhouette. You would not be the first to shoot a 10/22 at a match. There are several being shot here in Phoenix. They can be worked to shoot really well. The only thing I can add is, Have Fun! when you do shoot.

[BulZi]

For those of you who might be wondering, this is what the 10-22 eTrigger looks like:



This is what the 10-22 eTrigger looks like in a standard-style stock...





...and in a Fajen Legacy.



In case you are wondering, it is an adjustable electronic trigger system with adjustable travel and pull weight. You can set the travel down to fractions of a mm (tens of microns, actually), and the pull weight from several kg to tens of grams.

I designed it so that I could design a barrel-block-bedded (a la Ross Precision) bullpup stock with a forward-mounted Olympic-class Pardini-style trigger - fire by wire. These have been used in world class rapid-fire pistol for the past ten years. Ralf Schumann, an Olympic pistol great, designed the trigger in the Pardini. For a bullpup or other non-standard stock, it is great because you can put the trigger anywhere you want, and have the same fully-adjustable travel, weight and break.

Yes, bolt guns have a higher general potential accuracy due to the better chambers, more accurate bolt and breech faces, etc. I would never argue that a semiauto action can have the same chamber as a bolt gun and still be reliable. The question isn't about accuracy potential or cost, it is more about ergonomics and rules-compliance.

A 10-22 can put all of the bullets through the same hole from a bench. The accuracy potential of the gun is sufficient for many types of shooting. In other words, the bolt, chamber, and barrel quality of a 10-22 are not what limits the shooter's ultimate performance. Semiautomatic's might not be as good as a nice bolt gun for single shot accuracy, but the gun isn't the weakest link in the equation for a typical standing shot.

10-22's are cheap, and there are many companies that make an excellent assortment of barrels from budget to pricey, with an amazing range of barrel lengths and chambers, etc. You can replace any part of the gun, action, bolt, and since there are over 5 million of them, that's not likely to change in the future. They are easy and fun to modify because everything is modular in design, very few tools required.

Since a 10-22 an autoloader, you can take the reloading out of the equation, so the shooter can concentrate on other aspects of taking the next shot. With this trigger, you can basically "will" the gun to fire. It is pretty sweet. In other words, it "solves" the poor trigger problem of the 10-22 for almost all types of shooting - Even when the rules call for a high pull weight, the travel and break are nothing to sneeze at either.

The "unstable barrel-receiver-scope mating" ie "barrel droop" 10-22 issues can be solved with barrel block bedding, whether in a bullpup or conventional stock (like the Ross). Unfortunately, for competition silhouette shooting, there are a lot of rules about stock dimensions (comb height, scope height) relative to the bore line, so the barrel block bedded bullpup is probably out for this type of competition.

The bullpup is ergonomically great for offhand shooting, because even with a long heavy barrel (22" bull), the center of mass is right above your trigger hand with a 13" LOP. You get to hold the weight in close to your chest, and not way out in front.

The basic question is whether a gun that looks like those pictured above would conform to smallbore silhouette rules in some/any class, provided that you don't use the trigger guard as a palm rest, and provided it meets the weight requirements, etc? What do you guys think?