Single or 2 stage

kevinpagano · Post by **kevinpagano** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 5:16 pm

Ok what are you guys using. I been rethinking the 2 stage trigger as I had a couple unintentional shots at todays match.

Quonset Hut · Post by **Quonset Hut** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:00 pm

What rifle are you shooting?

Jason · Post by **Jason** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:38 pm

I'm guessing it's his 1712 he was talking about in this post.

papabear · Post by **papabear** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:23 am

Just got a 1712 myself. It came in as 2 lbs on the secondstage so basically it is a single stage with a long pull for right now. I just want to get used to it first before making any changes.

My wife has one set at 20 and 14, 2 oz over the min but works for her. Once I get used to the feel of the gun then I will get it adjusted to be 25 and 8.
Maybe I can ask Chicken George to use his electronic pull gauge to help me adjust my trigger. Since he is now in a higher class than I am.

I think you should take time to get used to it first before making any decisions or changes.It is your personal rifle and you should be very comfortable with it's settings otherwise you will be fidgeting with it all the time or not and that confident that it will break when you want it to and all that will add to the anxiety level when you're in the firing line.

After a few thousand rounds you'll get used to it,

I think it was Dave Imas who wrote buy some cheaper ammo,then set your rifle on a bench rest and just start squezzing the trigger and get used to the second stage. I hope I am qouting him properly.

Good luck

Innocent · Post by **Innocent** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:00 am

Any gunsmith will tell you to run at least 500 rounds through a gun before adjusting the trigger.
Innocent

GeoNLR · Post by **GeoNLR** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:48 am

papabear wrote:Once I get used to the feel of the gun then I will get it adjusted to be 25 and 8.

PB,

I did not think this could be done... I thought that small changes could be made with the stock springs, but they were with sear engagement and over all weight only(granted the stages DO change weight as the overall weight is increased/decreased, but I thought "It is what it is" on weight and you could not "slide" weight back and fourth from 1st to 2nd stage)? I don't have one to play with, but many here (and local shooters) would like to know how to set up the 5109 (? correct?) as described above... This also happened to be discussed in our "Thunderdome" tent this year in Winnie...

Cluck Cluck

nomad · Post by **nomad** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:35 am

The 'balance' of the 2 stages on the 1712 triggers can be changed by changing out the 'cam' that contacts the sear lever and controls the 2nd stage. (There are at least 3 different cams available from Ansch

GeoNLR · Post by **GeoNLR** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:37 pm

[quote="nomad"]The 'balance' of the 2 stages on the 1712 triggers can be changed by changing out the 'cam' that contacts the sear lever and controls the 2nd stage. (There are at least 3 different cams available from Ansch

atomicbrh · Post by **atomicbrh** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:49 pm

My family is still using the single stage Anschutz 1712 triggers but we are thinking about trying the two stage. We have shot other competitiors' 1712 rifles with two stage triggers. We have felt some inconsistent things in the first stage of some of these rifles. Sometimes we felt a hitch or false trigger break in the first stage. Other times we felt a sensation of something releasing or a lever tripping in the middle of the first stage. Other times in the middle of the first stage we felt a sensation like a spring releasing(boing"). We shot a newer 1712 in a wood stock and the first stage felt smooth and great. What is the explanation? Is there more than one kind of 1712 2 stage trigger and how do we avoid the inconsistent ones?

Bobby R. Huddleston

dave imas · Post by **dave imas** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:42 pm

Oh my GOOD LORD and MERCIFUL HEAVENS!!!!

just learn to shoot what you got!!!!!!!! single stage, two stage, two stage with a hitch, single stage with a loop de loop... it doesn't matter. Ernie is EXACTLY right. a consistent trigger is what you want. if you can't shoot or don't have good trigger control, what kind of trigger you have won't make any difference! it always comes back to the same thing!!!!!

LEARN TO SHOOT!

dave imas

nomad · Post by **nomad** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:46 pm

Now David,
I think that the current recommendation is 120 over 80. (They've reduced that from the old 140 over 90!)

Mr Huddleston,
I don't know what was done to the triggers you've experienced. AFAIK you can contact Neal Stepp at ISS in Ft Worth (817 595 2090) and he'll convert your single stage trigger(s) to 2 stage for about $100 depending on whether you choose the sliding staff or the fixed version. Neal does a good job but he won't spend hours trying for a specific 1st/2nd stage balance. Using the factory parts, he generally gets about 60-70% on the 1st stage and the rest where it falls. The factory spring on those triggers is intended for 1,000 grams minimum -- so you'll probably wind up 'around' 2 lbs 3 oz total pull.

No one can do his best work with a bad trigger but Dave hit it on the head: If your trigger isn't lying to you -- IOW as long as it does whatever it does the same way each time -- there are more important considerations. Certainly, as long as the 2nd stage is consistent, strange noises or glitches in the 1st stage don't make much difference. The only real function of the 1st stage is to move the sear to the brink of release where the 2nd stage can kick it cleanly off the edge anyway.

Nobody worries much about my scores tearing up the leader board at matches but, frankly, I'm beginning to reconsider the whole 2 stage 'advantage'. Have you noticed that there's a small lady name of Winstead who often turns in some pretty fair numbers while sticking with single stage triggers? lol

kevinpagano · Post by **kevinpagano** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:12 pm

I didn't mean to drive anyone crazy with the post wow its not like I was comparing a chevy to a ford or something. I just wanted to know some opinions and I thank everyone for their input. I have no where near enough trigger time to make a change yet but I was curious as to peoples reasoning for single or 2 stage. Its a learning process and it sounds like this subject has a high degree of personal preference.

dave imas · Post by **dave imas** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:09 pm

Kevin, don't mind me. i rarely know what i'm doing and find life quite nice that way. every now and again i get excited about something that means absolutely nothing. Ernie has learned to just smile, pat me on the head, and send me on my way. i'm sure you will do fine regardless of what trigger you chose.
dave

Innocent · Post by **Innocent** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:04 am

Dave and Ernie are correct, have a trigger that is consisitant.
One of the tricks I use in pistol instruction is to take a double action and
balance a dime on the barrel and practice squeezing without having the dime fall off. Another unforgiving trick is to shoot air pistol silhouette with a scope, you can see you mistakes if you use a slow enough pistol, i.e. one that kicks out around 400 to 550 fps.

Dave missed you at Ridgway, you would have had a tough time keeping up with Jared's opening score though, hope the new job isn't pushing the blood pressure up too much!!!!

Innocent

atomicbrh · Post by **atomicbrh** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:43 pm

Dave Imas: I do not want to get "your blood pressure up" but you missed the entire point of my post. The whole post was about the inconsistency of some of the 2 stage 1712 triggers we have tried. I want a consistent trigger: 1st stage and 2nd stage. How can you "learn" to break a shot or practice breaking a shot with a trigger that does 3 or 4 different things during the first stage? With some of the triggers we have tried the shot broke at what felt like a 3rd stage because the hitch was so pronounced in the 1st stage. You cannot say to the owner of the rifle that you are trying: "Your trigger stinks!" especially when they might have spent hours and many dollars working on it.

Nomad: Good advice as always about Neal Stepp. Some of these 1st stages were so bad that we tried, it would just take you out of the shot mentally. You are right , no telling what the owners of the rifles had done to them. I am mainly contemplating the 2 stage because of arthritis in my fingers especially the trigger finger. I cannot feel how much I am preloading the single stage sometimes. I am still having a good time shooting silhouette though and have no intentions of quitting. Also, I think but am not sure that Mr. Lawton like Miss Winstead is still using the single stage and a 1700 series action.

KevinP: Do not feel bad about starting this topic. This is a good topic. This bantering is constructive and helps everyone learn about our sport. There is not time to digest this kind of information at the matchs when we are busy shooting.

Thanks,
Bobby R. Huddleston

Single or 2 stage

single stage or 2 stage trigger

Single or 2 stage

Single or 2 stage

Single or 2 stage