Questions about actions and Lock Time

rich56 · Post by **rich56** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:22 am

In another post Lone Ringer mentions the importance of lock time in off hand shooting. This being so, I have some questions. I've seen lock times quoted in 1/1000s of a second. How was this measured? Between lock times and availability of good triggers in what order would you rate these actions for silhouette rifles, Anschutz 1710, Rem 40x, Sako FinnFire, Kimber 82G, Remington 504 and 541? Is a Finnfire Varmint better than a 504T-HB? I have a 40x, Sako and 82G, I'd love a 1710 but don't see that cash available in my future. As my savings go up the price goes up faster. Should I feel under privileged with only a very good condition CMP 40X STD barrel? All answers and opinions are appreciated, Thanks Rich56

dwl · Post by **dwl** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:22 am

Aboslutely! The Finnfire and the 1710 are better than the 504T-HB and your life won't be complete until you own both. We will be anxiously awaiting the field report...on how good the spending feels.

BTW, if I recall correctly the Remington 540/541/580/581 have the fastest lock time of all, faster than my wobble.

yankee · Post by **yankee** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:58 am

Faster lock time is a good thing in off hand shooting. Also into this goes the time you see the cross hair where you want the shot to go, to the reaction time to get the trigger pulled, to the lock time to get the firing pin to the case, to ignition time, to the barrel time of the bullet. During all this time you are moving the rifle and changing the placement of the bullet on the target or off the target.
The lock time is gererally considered to be the time from when the trigger breaks until the time the firing pin hits the cartridge or some would say when it goes bang. It all goes along with weight of the firing pin, ease of movement of the firing pin, which goes along with firing spring tension or how hard it pushes. Then you get into how many levers, cams. pins and other things that are between the trigger and the firing pin release.
The 54 series anschuts has always been considered good as has the finfire and the 541, 581 rems.
Some notes that I remember from people using the finfires. Mainly that the lighter barrel models shot better than the heavy barrel models, why I don't know.
This is also true of the 541T vs the 541t heavy barrel that the regular barrel would shoot better than the heavy barrel. Having had a few of the remingtons I would think some of that would be due to the change that remington had in about 92 or 93. At about that time I noticed the workmanship went down the tubes and the actions were not as smooth and the rifles did not shoot as good as the older 541t and the 541s or the 581. If I remember right the 541 heavy barrel came out in 92 or 93.
The only way I could tell if a 541t was an early or what I thought a better model was that about 92 or 93 remington started putting a grove around the ball of the bolt handle.
There is nothing wrong with the 40xr. Before the titanium firing pins many would drill the center of the shaft or some would machine the shaft and make a triangle shape of the shaft thus removing weight.
Changing the weight or push of the firing pin spring has trade offs between starting speed of the pin and stopping the pin, both of these creating movement in the rifle. Not to mention the possible damage to the rifle. The heavier or faster pushing spring was usually heavier in weight also and this would have a start and stop movement in the rifle.
In the early to mid 90's the rules were changed and they increased the weight of the Hunter rifle so the heavy anschutz rifles could be let in the game. At that time many 541 shooters added an extra pound in the stock.
With the 40x it does not hurt to make sure the hole in the bolt where the firing pin goes and the firing pin and spring are clean with nothing in the way to obstruct movement.
The bottom line is shoot the 40xr and have a good time. Work with it, and on it, and learn with it. Experiment with it. Put 5 to 10,000 rounds through it this next year and you will learn more than you will ever know.
Most important is have a good time and ask questions. Listen to the old guys they have been through it. Shoot and shoot some more and have a good time. Enjoy the competition and enjoy being able to compete and enjoy the friends.

shakes · Post by **shakes** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:58 am

Ive also heard that the Rem's have the fastest lock time then the Sako's, and then your Annie's. The problem with the Rems and Sakos is their trigger and its expensive and hard to find sombody willing to take a new Annie trigger and start hacking at it to get to fit a action it wasnt desinged for. I know a lot of people who have done this to their guns. One of them wont do it to anybodys rifle becuase he doesnt want to take the risk of screwing up your trigger. Its just a lot eaiser to buy a great receiver with a great trigger on it a call it good.

shakes · Post by **shakes** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:59 am

Ive also heard that the Rem's have the fastest lock time then the Sako's, and then your Annie's. The problem with the Rems and Sakos is their trigger and its expensive and hard to find sombody willing to take a new Annie trigger and start hacking at it to get to fit a action it wasnt desinged for. I know a lot of people who have done this to their guns. One of them wont do it to anybodys rifle becuase he doesnt want to take the risk of screwing up your trigger. Its just a lot eaiser to buy a great receiver with a great trigger on it a call it good.

shakes · Post by **shakes** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:00 am

Ive also heard that the Rem's have the fastest lock time then the Sako's, and then your Annie's. The problem with the Rems and Sakos is their trigger and its expensive and hard to find sombody willing to take a new Annie trigger and start hacking at it to get to fit a action it wasnt desinged for. I know a lot of people who have done this to their guns. One of them wont do it to anybodys rifle becuase he doesnt want to take the risk of screwing up your trigger. Its just a lot eaiser to buy a great receiver with a great trigger on it a call it good.

ter · Post by **ter** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:39 pm

I don't know about the lock times on various 22 rifles, but I can sure tell the difference with an air rifle compared to a 22. The speed of the projectile being around 550fps for a match pellet rifle verses a 1100fps 22 is very obvious. So considering locktime as pulling the trigger and having the bullet leave the barrel, the 550fps speed difference in a 20 inch barrel is very noticeable.
On the same line of thought, I just got a Anschutz 9003, and I had a Anschutz 2002 for years. The 9003 is advertised as having a faster lock time, and I think I can slightly notice it. Of course maybe it is my imagination and wishful thinking after plunking down the big bucks for the 9003.

shakes · Post by **shakes** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:45 pm

HAD A TRIPLE SHOT THIS MORNING BY THE LOOKS OF IT

ter · Post by **ter** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:47 pm

I don't know about the lock times on various 22 rifles, but I can sure tell the difference with an air rifle compared to a 22. The speed of the projectile being around 550fps for a match pellet rifle verses a 1100fps 22 is very obvious. So considering locktime as pulling the trigger and having the bullet leave the barrel, the 550fps speed difference in a 20 inch barrel is very noticeable.
On the same line of thought, I just got a Anschutz 9003, and I had a Anschutz 2002 for years. The 9003 is advertised as having a faster lock time, and I think I can slightly notice it. Of course maybe it is my imagination and wishful thinking after plunking down the big bucks for the 9003.

Innocent · Post by **Innocent** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:30 pm

Shakes, that is a three shot burst...
Innocent

Jerry G · Post by **Jerry G** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:59 pm

If you have an accurate gun and a good, smooth trigger I think that is all that matters. The rest is up to you.

A factory 10-22 has a bad trigger and a so-so bbl. but you can shoot your way into AAA with it. I suppose master is do-able with it also but I don't know anyone who has done it.

rich56 · Post by **rich56** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:05 pm

My Finnfire might need bedding, best it can do is 5/8" group@50yd and needs that little trigger help. The 40x needs a stock to bring it down to 10#. Then I'm good to go. I'm going to use a Remington CDL LTD in 260 for Hunter centerfire. At about $1600 for a 1710HB that Annie is not in my near future. I'm still trying to squash the urge for the 504T HB tho, Thanks for helping with that affliction

BlauBear · Post by **BlauBear** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 7:42 pm

Rich, I'm the only 504 fan here and I still use a 1712 action. Oh well. In the approximate price range of the 504-T you might consider a Weatherby XXII, which is really an Anschutz 64 action in a stock that's better proportioned for Silhouette.

Jetmugg · Post by **Jetmugg** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:29 pm

Does anybody know how the CZ 452 action stacks up in terms of lock time?

SteveM.

edgehit · Post by **edgehit** » Sat Jan 10, 2009 9:55 pm

I think the CZ's have a decent lock time, similar to 54 action, probably slower. There's more moving mass in the firing pin with the CZ. This is just an opinion, not actual measurement. YMMV.

The lock time is not most important as most all bolt guns are pretty good. You get used to what you practice with a lot. I think your rifle choice should be based on what is comfortable to hold when you shoot off hand. If you're not comfy what standing at the line, you're scores will show it.

Questions about actions and Lock Time

Questions about actions and Lock Time

Got Alot fom you guys

CZ 452?