Follow through question

[huntingnt]

I was shooting paper again today and did a follow through drill that Alston (ajj) gave me. I noticed that my reticle climbs about three to four heights of the animal and to the 1:30 when the sights come back I am resting slightly to the right of where I broke the shot. I can't tell if I'm preloading the stock or possibly doing something with the trigger to keep it from returning to zero.
Also, since I'm shooting at the 50ft targets I have been using Federal 510 since it's cheap. I haven't tried going back to Wolf since I only have a couple of boxes left. Do I have to worry about leading the barrel since Federal lube is so dry or how many shots of Wolf should I push through it to get the barrel settled back in?

[BlauBear]

You will have some leading from the Federal, but a couple of passes with tight patches will pull it out.

[shakes]

This would have been a great topic and one that I'm sure Mr. Imas would have answered at his clinic had he not got the rug pulled out from under him. I'm sure he might have a excellent response to your question. I was so looking forward to getting some expert advice before the CBC, but oh well.

[dave imas]

not having seen what you are actually doing I can only suggest that, with smallbore, your sights should have never left zero with effective follow-thru. kinda like watching a movie. you should be able to watch the bullet impact on your target and then watch the target fall. It isn't a "return to battery" kind of thing. most often movement either up or down is a result of your forward arm not being relaxed when you break the shot. folks will either tense up and pop shots over the top or relax when the break the shot and drop shots beneath the target. again, not having watched, i'm just throwing stuff up in the air to see if something rings true with you.

[Jerry G]

I'm with you Dave, the dot should never leave the animal when shooting SB. If you don't see the hit and see the animal fall, you are doing something wrong.

[Fick_2141]

It could be that you have not established a natural point of aim.
You may be using some twist in your torso that relaxes subconsiously as you break the shot.
Sight in on the target and relax. Close your eyes, and relax everything that is not holding you up or the rifle. When you fell comfortable, and still, open your eyes and see where the rifle is pointed. Adjust your rear foot forward or back parralel to the firing line to change NPA. For elevation a wider or more narrow stance can adjust this so that you do not "muscle" the rifle onto the target.
This is also a great exercise to clear your mind, and focus on breaking a good shot. Once you have established your NPA, do not move your feet. With a little practice you can establish your NPA for each animal left to right very quickly.
If the sun is behind me I often see the round before it hits the target, especially at 100 M.

[dave imas]

so this is where it gets difficult getting advice online for shooting positions and holds... Fick suggests you might have twist in your position that you want to get rid of while I will purposely put twist in your position. open stance, closed stance... too much twist, not enough twist... lots of different aspects to discuss and blend for a solid position. Best for you to find somebody local that knows what they are doing to watch and help you out.

dave

[ppkny]

I went to clinic given by Troy Lawton where he suggested a method of developing your hold and follow through.
His advice, given you had some basic stance and gun presentation lessons, was to start with a 3 inch circle at 50 meters, once you could get 90% of the shots inside it reduce it to 2 inch, than 1 1/2. After you mastered that move the target out to 100 meters and repeat the procedure.
Granted ammo plays a big part in this but testing yourself like he suggest is humbling.
ppkny

[dave imas]

Troy certainly knows what he is talking about. Some folks don't have the assumed position and hold... still working with the foundation if you will. Chris Winstead will tell you it is all about trigger and follow-thru. And he is absolutely right. As he states, you can stand on one foot falling off a log and if your trigger work and follow-thru are good, nothing else matters. I buy that completely. Wish I had Chris as a coach! I just like to help folks get consistently in the neighborhood with a solid foundation.

[huntingnt]

I have noticed that my NPA will only hold me through about two of the five animals. I have tried preloading my back as Dave suggests, but then I seem to lose it near the end of the string. I also notice that I have to really make a concerted effort to keep my right butt cheek from tensing up. I believe that I probably have a simple structural problem that I'm not properly diagnosing. I also noted two other things this last session. First, I seem to put the majority of my off shots at the six or directly behind the animals butt, which I think is possibly two separate issues. Second, I seem to connect a lot more the more aggressive I am on the trigger.
I am planning on shooting at the Capitol City match this weekend & will see if I can bum some advice then. I will have to increase my beer bribing budget.

[dave imas]

i'll see you there. we can spend a few minutes on your position... just enough to get you thinking so you don't shoot worth a poop! :)

[Wayne]

Dave,
I read your coment about "return to battery" with interest. When I have a clean break my scope dot rises about 3-4 animal high at 12 to 1 o'clock then settles back on the animal. I notice when sighting in off the bags with the front bag just in front of the forearm as my hand would be, the scope dot does not move at all when I break the shot. When I shoot offhand no matter were I place my left hand (right hand shooter) or where I place the but stock (hi or low) I tend to ride the recoil??? Is that from years of shooting 45-70 in BPCS??? If so, how does one learn not to follow the recoil?

Wayne

[dave imas]

Hi Wayne,
I'm glad you talked about what your follow-thru looks like from the bags. That is what we are striving for from our off-hand position and hold. Same movie. Break the shot, watch it fall. No movement. We see it at the movie theatre all the time! :)

I can't really tell from your description exactly where your left hand is on the stock but it should be in the place that allows you to optimize the length of your forearm. You want to support your rifle with bone as much as possible with your forward hand placement being a part of that. It can be difficult finding the right position... at the clinics I'll work with folks for quite some time helping them find something in the neighborhood of correct and then let them adjust the final touches to what fits their body. It can take some time to find it and then even longer to get your muscle memory to allow it consistently.

I apologize for not really answering your question. Without seeing what you are doing I really can't offer much help except the high level stuff. We can read all we want from books but, as we all know, it is much more difficult to apply the theory at the firing line.

Regarding your prior shooting experience... that can have an affect regarding muscle memory. You could have a trained reaction to the trigger break to roll with the recoil. Something not necessary with smallbore. (that is me making a wild ass guess) :)

dave

[Dee]

Wayne - Do you or have you ever tried using a air rifle for practicing? They demand good follow through for a longer duration in most cases to be accurate. I use both PCP air rifles and have a Steyr single stroke pneumatic 10m match rifle which is totally recoiless but at 600 fps mv you have to have the sights on the target the entire time the shot cycle is happening. The nice thing is absolutely no movement just a piff of air out the end. I can watch the pellet in flight most of the time as the sight picture never changes.

Last weekend at our airgun silhouette match we had 10-15 mph winds gusting to around 20 coming 90 degrees from the left. Having to hold off so far with the target rifle really gives me a great sense of how the wind plays on the path of the pellet. I would hold 1/2 a Ram off to the left and watch the pellet fly as it was pushed to the right in some cases clear past the ram and 1/2 way to the next one.

When my follow through is perfect I can see the target fall in my scope with the rimfire but I still need to work on it and not allow it to slip up as it takes me 5 shots usually to realize I am not following through as I watch my shots go high. It would be really nice if I could get it to the point that I could actually see each shoot point of impact to go along with my call of the shot itself.

My dad always used to say "Don't even think about the recoil, just know that it's coming and concentrate on the sights trying to keep the sight picture on target till you know the bullet has arrived." If you are focused on the target/sights and making the shot the recoil should not even be anywhere in your thoughts.



Dee

[Wayne]

Dave & DEE,

Thanks for the reply. Yes I do practice with an air rifle and I do not see the scope dot rise much at all (475fps). I figured with the higher vel of the .22lr (1100fps) I had no control over the rise of the rifle. I'm a RH shooter and my left hand is just in front of the trigger guard with palm facing me and forearm between the thumb and index finger and my upper arm is resting on my rib cage. At are match today I tryed to make a concerted effort on watching for the bullet impact to help eliminate the rise of the rifle. I did notice that the rise was not as much as in the past. Now that I'm aware that the rifle does not need to rise I will work on this.
It just amazes me that with the rifle supported by a narrow bag in front of the trigger guard and no rear bag just me pulling into my shoulder that there is absolutly no climb in the scope dot and the splat is right behind the dot.
Thats what makes this game fun. Always working and learning something new.

Wayne