What is the value of a spotter?

[Innocent]

Pete and Dee,
First off Amen to Lone Ringer's comments, Tony is correct and he is also an excelllent spotter. I would like to add that learning to be a good spotter comes with several things, primarily experience.
As for needing more equipment Dee, valuable to have, but most silhouette shooters will loan their spotting scope when they are not using it, so don't get in a big hurry to buy one, try several models and brands then shop for what suits your eyes/needs.
Pete as for learning to spot with a yongster, they will learn a lot from learning to spot as well, I for one am always willing to have anyone sit with me while I am spotting a shooter (presuming it is not a new and nervous type copmpetitor) to watch the interaction and see what I am calling for environmental conditions, as well as shot placement. The biggest thing to watch out for in this type of set up is that the competitior is only hearing and listening to the one spotter. I have worked with Kevin P's son at the Nationals in Raton some this year, he was doing a great job of calling his fathers shots, but lacked the experience to notice the pattern of shot placement (ie three shots in a row to the right of the animal), or truly notice the envinomental conditions. During the break between banks of animals I could point out little things that allowed him time to see why I was offering the advice that I was giving to Kevin. As for shooting only one relay, most match directors are more than willing to work with allowing shooters to spot for each other(especially children), even if that means calling a second relay, so just ask.
I'm sure there are plenty of good spotters in your area, not all the good spotters can shoot well anymore, the body doesn't always cooperate with the mind, so just because they aren't shooting master scores doesn't mean they can't call a shot.

Mary

[Pete A.]

My son & I have; not at our own club, been able to spot for each other before. Both our scores were better when we did this. It is very enjoyable to shoot this way.

We discuss which bank/which animal, double check your sight settings, etc. Of course we both need work/experience but we keep the 'dumb' misses (wrong bank wrong animal) from happening. I would love to have him spotting for me and me for him at all matches.

Honestly it sucks to have to shoot against him and not with & in support of him.

Probably neither of us will shoot any single relay matches in the future (be nice if clubs would publish this rather than voting on it at the start of the match). We just aren't good enough to say 'I don't need a spotter' like the big guys. Again we want to shoot together not against each other.

Pete A.

[atomicbrh]

At our monthly Smallbore Matchs at Magnolia Rifle and Pistol Club in Jackson, MS. I have the whole program set up to run spotter/shooter teams. I find out if you want to spot and shoot with a particular person when you show up for the match. If you do not want a spotter you do not have to use one. Our range is a very tricky range to shoot the turkeys and rams without a spotter. On a sunny day many people cannot see the rams with the naked eye. No one has ever shot a 10 in a row on turkeys or rams in either class at our range. If I have to add extra relays for people to spot and shoot together I will.

I personally do not want someone spotting for me at the larger matchs that is spotting for eight other people. That spotter may be good but nobody's eyes and concentration can handle that many shooters 10 or more hours a day for a 3 day match. It is better to just spot and shoot with at the most two people. The communication and chemistry between the shooter and spotter along with the familiarity with what each other's equipment and ammo will do under different conditions is more important to me than just pure shot calling ability.

I can spot for a B, A, or AA shooter on the spur of the moment but I feel that I have to have prior experience with a AAA or Master shooter before a larger match to really know what kind of communication that the AAA or Master wants to hear. One of my greatest thrills in this sport was when I spotted a B class shooter who was at only his second match to a first place in B Hunter and a second place in B Smallbore. The Match Director had asked me before the Match to help the competitor because it was only his second match, he did not have anybody to spot for him and it was a large match. I asked the competitor during practice if he just wanted me to be quiet and score for him or if he wanted everything I had in me. He said humbly I want all the help that you can give me. We sat down together a few minutes before the match and developed a basic plan of how we were going to spot during the match. I had more fun that match spotting than shooting myself because my shooter was really working hard and doing his best to put into action what I was saying.

We shoot many monthly matchs at other ranges in our area that only run one relay without spotters. I never understand this because we have all basically used up a day anyway. There is not time to go home and get any chores done. Why not spot, shoot, eat and enjoy a day together devoted to shooting silhouette? Why hurry and shoot as fast as you can and not take the time to learn something?

Bobby R. Huddleston

[twofifty]

I am new to the sport - a low A shooter - but have had the good fortune to have my fall of shot spotted by two canadian National champions over the course of several days.

What an amazing experience it is to have such people sharing all with a mere beginner - a testimony to this sport's level of sportsmanship. These guys taught me about follow through, about settling the sight picture down to a useful pattern of motion, and about reading the wind. Now I need to earn my way into the AA level.

I have spotted for shooters at all levels and very much enjoy the teamwork; lots to be learned about shooting by spotting for AA and up shooters, esp. the mindset part of the game.

Amazing what this summer's 1400 rounds of SB sil did for my HP positional matches.

[kevinpagano]

Mary is a great spotter and teacher. I wish she lived closer. I learned alot about spotting when she was talking to my son while spotting for me at the Nats.

The more I shoot the more I realize that a good spotter can help alot with whats going on down range. I feel that it can save you misses not necesarily get you hits but save you misses. Getting hits is something you have to do yourself. Saving you misses is what the spotter can do for you.

Kevin

[NewAZShooter]

I know from my own experience as a new shooter/spotter that a "good" spotter who has been at the game awhile can really teach a person a lot. I got a lot of tips starting out and many of them were helpful. Not all, but many. I have also seen "bad" spotters piss off their shooters so bad that they can't hit the side of a barn. I say "bad" in quotes because I am not just talking about a person who cannot see where your bullet struck (although that can be rough), but a person who just doesn't fit your personality or preferences. Maybe they chatter on like machinery when you're trying to concentrate. Or maybe they saw the shot miss, but just did't say a word when you happened to miss calling your POI on that round and it felt like a center break but it missed... and you don't know where it went.

I guess my idea of a great spotter is a person who knows from watching you at the line exactly what it is you need to know and how to put it to you concisely without the need for you to ask. They give you just what you need and no more. They keep things fun, but stay focused on what's going on. Sometimes that means all you hear is, "good hit, just above center." And sometimes you hear "missed low between the legs" and I personally like that kind of calling. I think the advice above about sitting down and discussing how the shooter wants you to spot is a good bit of knowdlege to keep in mind, because I've spotted for guys who don't want to hear a peep if its a hit, but they want to see a mark exactly on their board where the miss went the instant they lower the rifle.

Where I am still in a gray area as a spotter and shooter both is when it comes to the "other stuff." Things like how much talk about the changing wind and mirage conditions is useful and how much just becomes distracting.

With one guy in a match a few months ago who was missing more than his rating would suggest he should, I looked away from the target for one round to look at the shooter instead, and I picked up what I took to be a small "glitch" in his stance. I glanced up at the tip of the muzzle for wobble and checked to see how his body moved after the shot. He seemed to be straining a little to get on target. I saw him relax just after the shot in follow-through, and it was like his body was uncoiling right to left about ten degrees. I could actually see in his follow through that his NPA was way off and he was forcing the rifle around to get it on target. His rating was higher than mine and I didn't feel right telling him it looked like he needed to work his foot placment over a bit to get back to NPA. But I wish a spotter would tell me those things if they saw something similar.

I am so new at this that I don't have many opportunities to notice and do anything that helpful very often, but a person who could see all of those things and still call your shots and the conditions accurately would be a fabulous spotter indeed. Spotting is all about seeing first, then its about communication.

The best I ever shot at any one animal in SB rifle sil was 12/15 pigs. And I can tell you with absolute certainty I hit that many because my spotter helped me. My first shot went in the dirt below the animal and off-center by about 1-2 inches. I saw it hit, but figured I must have pulled it. My spotter called it "miss, low and left 2 inches." Second shot, same thing and the spotter called out "same spot, low left. Might consider a hold-off on the next one." I tried out a hold off and placed the crosshairs at the top rear edge of the back by the butt and got a good break and sure enough came the call, "center hit, good shot." I aimed the rest of my run at pigs the same way and hit another 11 of 12. If not for that good spotting, I wouldn't have had the confidence to hold and try to break so far off center. The rifle was sighted in and hitting dead center in practice just before the match, so in my brain I had it hard-wired for a center break. My problem required only a simple solution, but when you're new at something, a few well-chosen words at the line can make a world of difference.

[atomicbrh]

With most shooters I do not talk when the shooter is on the trigger concentrating on trying to break the shot where he wants it. I really like to spot for a shooter that I cannot mess up by talking when he is actually on the trigger and making the shot. If I am on the trigger and I sense a wind or light change and my spotter is not talking I will ask, "Where?" meaning "Do I need to hold or click somewhere different?" I do not know if this is good etiquette on the firing line or not but at times on the turkey and ram my son that I spot for will actually put down his rifle in a open bolt safe condition and come back to the spotting scope and look through it to see what I am seeing. Then he will go back to the firing point pick up the rifle and make the shot. One time at a monthly match in Winnsboro my son had made the third shot on a bank of turkeys, put the rifle down and went back to look through the spotting scope and talk about what we were going to do on the fourth turkey. After all we are shooting 40 one shot matchs are we not? David McClemore was not aware of this somewhat strange way of spotting/shooting, thought we were through with the bank and started "visiting" with us as we say in the South. My son got through looking through the spotting scope and went back to the rifle to shoot the fourth turkey, I took my place back behind the spotting scope and afterwards David apologized for interrupting our bank but I told him he did not bother us a bit because it was the truth.

I still have a whole lot to learn about spotting and shooting but there are a few things I am certain of. Lone Ringer, Innocent Mary, Robert Massey and Cathy Winstead-Sevrin's Dad are the best spotters I have watched. A shooter that can hold a tight group is the easiest to spot for but will demand great hit calling out of his or her spotter. A steady prevailing nonswitching wind will make the spotter and shooter look like geniuses. Dedication to your shooter is more important that pure shot calling ability. If the spotter is distracted by something or somebody and not on the line with that spotting scope when the "Fire" command is given he cannot help you. Spotting is a sport in itself.

Back to the original question, I think how much a spotter helps or hurts depends on the personalities of the shooter and spotter more than anything else.

Bobby R. Huddleston

[sobrbiker883]

With one guy in a match a few months ago who was missing more than his rating would suggest he should, I looked away from the target for one round to look at the shooter instead, and I picked up what I took to be a small "glitch" in his stance. I glanced up at the tip of the muzzle for wobble and checked to see how his body moved after the shot. He seemed to be straining a little to get on target. I saw him relax just after the shot in follow-through, and it was like his body was uncoiling right to left about ten degrees. I could actually see in his follow through that his NPA was way off and he was forcing the rifle around to get it on target.

Hey you can just call me by name!

[NewAZShooter]

Good one.