Range Mishap

jsimmons · Post by **jsimmons** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:34 am

No, nobody got shot.

I was at the range yesterday to discover my CZ's favorite locally available ammo. The Bexar County public range provides some cheap sand-filled plastic rests on their rifle range (and BTW, you can't shoot offhand at that range). I had a terrycloth rag on the rest, and a larger bath towel to support the butt.

Anyway, I had expended a magazine and removed it to reload, and thought I had made sure the rifle would stay where I laid it. As I was reloading the magazine, the rifle fell off the rest, fell about six inches onto the concrete table, and then fell off the table about 8 inches onto a steel rail and the side of my spotting scope tripod.

I think when it hit the table, it landed on the scope, and when it fell of the table, the barrel hit the steel rail, and the right side of the butt landed on the tripod. If it hadn't been for the tripod, the butt would have hit the ground.

I don't think it hurt the barrel other than marring the bluing a bit, but I think the scope is toast. I put another couple of magazines of ammo through the gun, and all of the shots were going high and to the left about 1.5 feet. I adjusted the scope all the way to the limits and it still wasn't hitting one of those 1.5x1.5-foot targets.

When I got home, I took the scope off the gun and shook it, but there's nothing rattling around in there. What are the chances I tweaked the barrel? I'm thinking it's not likely, but I thought I'd ask.

Lesson learned - get a real rifle rest.

Silver lining (if there really is one) - at least the scope (Mueller APV) wasn't expensive.

I'm not going to submit the scope as a warranty repair because it's plainly my fault.

I was sighting in at 100 yards and was getting 1-1.25 groups with all of the test ammo before I destroyed my rig. I also discovered that the CCI Std Velocity required less vertical scope adjustment than the higher speed stuff.

glen ring · Post by **glen ring** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:35 am

I've been there and done that. Don't feel too bad. I think everyone has dropped a gun at one time or another.I know you feel bad but maybe my story will make you feel a little better.

I finally was able to afford a nice .22 rifle ( Kimber HS) and was making sure that the leupold scope was mounted properly. The gun was unloaded and I was in my shop when the gun started falling in almost slow motion from the desk top ( no rest either). I looked like a wide receiver trying to catch a slightly overthrown football. After a couple of tips, swipes and me almost falling, the gun hit the concrete floor among some tools and other debris and the result was a big gouge of wood knocked off of the beautiful stock. Glue and sanding have almost made the mark better.

I'm old enough to know better, but got in a hurry to shoot this fine gun . The scope is fine and the rifle shoots better than I can so I'm lucky.
I'm glad my wife doesn't read this forum after I told her what I paid for the .22 and scope!
I'll bet others have similiar tales to tell.

Innocent · Post by **Innocent** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:45 am

jsimmons,

Some of the scope manufacturers repair despite the fault, check it out.
I would say that either/or (possibly both) the scope was damaged, the mounts were knocked out of align.
As for dropping rifles, it happens, even had mine fall off a rifle rack at a major match, ole Nellie looks worn on the stock but that is repairable when I retire her.

Mary

jsimmons · Post by **jsimmons** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 4:55 am

On the advice of someone at RFC, I'm going to disassemble/reassemble the whole thing, and take it back to the range before committing to a scope repair.

I sat here this morning and ran the windage and elevation to their center-most click. Is it safe to assume that's the optical center of the scope?

Innocent · Post by **Innocent** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:42 am

Try bore sighting the scope after complete disassembly. When you go to the range sight in close first (25 yards or so) then move out.

Mary

BlauBear · Post by **BlauBear** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:50 am

To find mechanical center, run the knob stop to stop, count the clicks and divide by 2. That number of clicks is the mechanical center.

Kitty had a similar episode at a match last year that smashed the scope and cracked the bedding. Now, if you've ever seen one of his rifles you'll understand this was a pretty horrific accident, but Weaver replaced the scope! I love Leupold scopes, but Weaver persuaded me they are the ones to look at when Leupold doesn't have what fits a particular need.

Stuff happens. Our rifles are tools we use, so sometimes they pick up a little character - besides, it isn't really yours until it has a story!

Fat NDN · Post by **Fat NDN** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:12 am

My son droped his 3' to the concrete. It had a BSA Platium on it, he called BSA, they said send it back. He did and they sent him a new scope.

Silo65 · Post by **Silo65** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:45 am

jsimmons

Mechanical and optical centers probably won't be the same due to manufacturing tolerance since the cross hairs have to placed in relation to the erector at assembly. They should be close.

To find the optical center see the fifth post down in:

http://practicalrifler.6.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=28

From the above link, you place a mirror on the objective and look through the scope. If it's off you'll see two cross hairs. Dial it in till there is only one.

I just tried it with my Redfiled and Weaver and it didn't work or they're optically centered. I doubt there perfectly centered so it may be that the cross hairs are in the first (second?) optic plane and the method won't work. For a high power scope you may need to shine a flashlight into the eye piece to see the cross hairs.

Tried a Bushnell airgun scope and the two cross hairs were there. Guess that scope isn't centered. Moving the turrets brought them together.

Gator · Post by **Gator** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 2:59 pm

This won

eeleater · Post by **eeleater** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 6:40 pm

I had a rifle and scope fall and a resultant shift in the POI of about 18 inches. Putting on another scope which had previously been on the gun proved it was not the gun that had shifted.

I sent to scope off to be checked by the manufacturer and got it back saying it was OK by them. I put it back on the gun- and it shot to about the same POI as after the fall. The groups size was what it should be-and adjustments worked as they should... I use burris posalign mounts- and used those to adjust for the POI shift- and have used the scope all season.

What I belive happened to our scopes- and why it may not be as bad as you think...

There are two "systems" in our scopes. The obvious one is the optical one. It takes an image, magnifies it, and refocuses it upright on a focal plane allowing us to focus and see it. The other system is the mechanical one and allows us to adjust the scope to the point of impact. ( Think about it- the scope does not change where the guns shoots- it just helps us point it to a different location)

The oringinal rifle scopes had -literally-"crossed hairs"- situated so they would show up in the scope and provide a visual reference. All adjustments were external- and moved the crossed hairs by moving the entire scope. This can be an excellent system- but with all the adjustments on the outside there are disadvantages. This lead to scopes of the type currently popular, with the mechanical adjustments on the inside.

The mechanical system in our scopes suspends the cross hairs in the middle of the scope body0 which is between the rings the way we mount them. The turrets push down or on the side on the tube with the crosshairs, with springs pushing the tube back against this adjustment. The far end of this tube is connected to the exteranl scope body near the eyepeice, and this remains fixed. A bend in the scope tube would do little to the optical path the light takes- but if it moves the scope tube around the turrents, they in turn shift the cross hairs and the POI changes. Without an actual mechanical breakage or "major" bend, this will not change the total range of the adjustments ( vertical or horizontal), so if you can get the necessary adjustment with the scope mechanically adjusted to center it should be usable. If you cannot do this with the current mounts try the burris Posalign- or look into airgun scope mounts, which tend to be very study and are designed to have lots of adjustability.

Worker 11811 · Post by **Worker 11811** » Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:39 pm

Like others have said, many scope manufacturers give unconditional guarantees. Do call or write them. You have nothing to lose. The worst they'll say is "No."

But, additionaly, if you bought the scope with a credit card and have the receipts to prove it, you might have loss/damage protection on the goods you buy through the credit card company. Some companies still do this. Again, you have nothing to lose for the asking.

Besides, with the money you pay in interest on those cards, you DESERVE it! ;)

jsimmons · Post by **jsimmons** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:15 am

Well, I had previously mechanically centered thescope, and this morning I optically centered it. The mechanical center was WAY off compared to the optical center. It was so far off that the crosshairs didn't even touch the mirrored sight picture.

I had to adjust up/right so much that there's not much adjustment left in those directions.

That can't be good, can it?

sobrbiker883 · Post by **sobrbiker883** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:36 pm

It sounds like the erector assembly was knocked out of whack.

Contact Mueller, they'll probably fix/replace it. Tell them what happened, not only for good karma, but also so they don't think they have a QC/manufacturing problem.

Than tell the range they owe you a new scope, really, what kind of range doesn't allow you to shoot offhand anyway?!?!?!?!

pistolero45 · Post by **pistolero45** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:42 pm

Silo - Thanks for that tip on checking a scope's optical and mechanical center. One of my hunting scopes took a really hard knock a couple of years ago and I knew the adjustments were way off. Now that the crosshairs are lined up, do I shim the scope to get the rifle to hit near point of aim? Thanks.

jsimmons · Post by **jsimmons** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:57 am

sobrbiker883 wrote:It sounds like the erector assembly was knocked out of whack.

Contact Mueller, they'll probably fix/replace it. Tell them what happened, not only for good karma, but also so they don't think they have a QC/manufacturing problem.

Than tell the range they owe you a new scope, really, what kind of range doesn't allow you to shoot offhand anyway?!?!?!?!

I sent Mueller an email describing that, and they responded that they've seen $2000 scopes with the same characteristics regarding the difference between mechanical/optical center.

I still think the scope is whacked, but I'm going to take it to the range this Saturday (with a real rifle rest this time), and see how it shoots. I also disassembled/reassembled the rifle, and remounted the rings. I guess I'll see what's what on Saturday.

Range Mishap

Range Mishap

dropped gun