Loading lite powder rounds, is it possible to?

[Dee]

I have no experience reloading and was curious about creating a potential low power sub-sonic load to shoot at the house. Would it be possible to load a heavier bullet over less powder and still maintain some level of accuracy out to around 100 yards? I am thinking the twist rates would be wrong for going back and forth with any success. Just wondering if anyone has tried such a thing.


Dee

[Baja_Traveler]

There's plenty of history using "Gallery Loads", not with heavy bullets though. I don't see why you would want a heavy bullet for that application anyway - the trajectory would be a rainbow to get a heavy bullet out there, and probably max out the ability of your sights to adjust. What cartridge were you thinking about doing this with?

[Bob Mc Alice]

Speaking from past experience shooting lots of CAST bullets from my .30-06, yes it is possible to fire slow moving heavy bullets. Cast bullets have much lower friction values than jacketed type and can be safely driven slower with small amounts of quick burning propellants.

I looked up 7-08 data ( what else ) in my Lyman and RCBS load books. One shows a 168 gr. cast silhouette style bullet traveling at 1400 -1500 fps. using 10-12 grs. of Red Dot and 700X and another at 1600 fps with 14.0 grs. of Unique. You can step up the speed to 1700-1900 using small amounts of fast burning rifle powders such as SR4759...I4227...I4198...RL7...I3031. The only published jacketed bullet reduced load I could find was a 150 gr. using 22.0 grs. SR4759 @ 1850 fps.

[Dee]

Thanks for the info on those rounds. I didn't have my heart set on any particular round. If I was to build a HP rig it would probably be 6.5x47 Lapua or .260 so if one of those could be loaded down that would be great. The heavier bullet would be in an attempt to try and keep the velocity down and sub sonic if possible. I am thinking .300 Whisper type performance here in a HP Sil round. I know I could make a .300 Whisper bolt gun with an internal surpressor on it that would be very quiet with 220-240g Match Kings and also use it with HV 120-140g bullets but not as quiet of course I want to build a Whisper but I would want one in an AR platform if I did

Just thinking way out ahead of myself here anyway. I haven't even shot a HP match yet but will this fall in Zwolle with a loaner. This loaner has brought about 2 custom rifles for 2 shooters in 2 years so they are thinking I might get hooked I don't know why.


Dee

[boats]

Old loading manuals always gave reduced loads for cartridges popular pre WW II. 30/06 30/30 300 Savage and some of the Metric calibers too. The straight sided black powder orgin cases as well. Generaly two categories, around 1500-1600 fps and sub sonic. Most of the mid range 1500-1600 loads use 4227 or 4759 many with jackated bullets. Go sub sonic most are either cast or short jackated bullet. Powder is almost always Unique in small charges. 4 or 5 grains

I shoot several 50' gallery matches with 32/40 & 38/55 single shots that require lead and sub sonic. Generaly use the same cast bullet as outdoor 200 yard loads. Powder mostly Unique, however have also used W231 in the 45/70 for Military Rifle class. Way I load them is dump a charge out of a fixed rotor pistol meter. See if it "cracks" then drop down rotors until the load is sub sonic. "Crack" is how the indoor club judges sub sonic. Gallery sub sonic centerfires are almost as accurate as a good .22 based on scores fired same match. To get good results mount the rifle same way everytime to make sure powder is in the same postion shot to shot

Sub sonic is possable with jackated bullets, just make sure the bullet left the bore before chambering the next one. Jackated has a lot more bore friction than lead and low veloicty more likely to stick.

Having said all that sub sonic centerfire loads are a lot of trouble and expense for pratice. Most of my Pratice is with a 22 @ 50' or 10 Meter Air Rifle.

Boats

[Dee]

Boats, I know what you are saying about the trouble and expense part. Just thinking about trigger time and paper punching here at the house on occassion with the actual HP rifle and not just dry firing. This has given me pause to consider perhaps spending the money on getting a 2 stage Annie trigger hung on the action instead that would mimic my smallbore and air rifle triggers. Hell I would want that anyway eventually now that I think about it. I like single stages for hunting but for targets I much prefer the two stage.



Dee

[jneihouse]

Dee,

That's not a loaner, that's "bait" lol....You will get hooked, not a doubt...Acutally, back in "the day" when folks were more inclined to have one centerfire and shoot it for just about everything it was quite common to load reduced power cast bullet loads. Quite pest control around the farm or homplace was a very valid reason for these loads. On a related note, there is a local smith who has done quite well by developing a suppressed AR type rifle in 300 whisper and mounting a suppressor. He's loading the round subsonic, it functions well in his AR platform and all you really hear when you shoot it is the click clack of the bolt cycling and the noise the return spring makes...intereresting.

Kitty

[ywltzucanrknrl]

Dee, I used to load cast subsonic rounds for my son to shoot when he was younger in a 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser. I used Bullseye, Unique and gas check cast bullets of about 150 grains. I could not find a plain base 6.5 caliber cast bullet. The loads shot well and were accurate. They were position sensitive---it’s a good idea to tip the barrel of the rifle up before you shoot each shot. The twist on the old Swedish Mausers is around a 1 in 7.5 I think, so slightly faster than most of the 6.5’s set up to shoot match and vld bullets.
You do risk getting one stuck in the barrel (cold days or maybe an under charge). Also it is easy, I’m told to double charge if you are not a cautious reloader due to the small powder charges. If you are thinking jacketed subsonic, like someone said they have more resistance and are easier to stick in a barrel and harder to get out once they are stuck.
Switching from cast to jacketed also requires very good cleaning of the bore, most “authorities” recommend cleaning well each time before you switch. Some people say it is best not to switch---just stick with one or the other.
Another thing I noticed is that the cases “act” differently (expansion when fired and resizing) when shot with reduced loads. It’s best to dedicate some cases to reduced loads and not use them for full power loads. This goes for both jacketed and cast reduced loads.
I believe cast bullets are easier on a barrel and the loads are very quiet—very similar to a 22 long rifle with a long barrel. They do ricochet a lot, so you might want consider that.
The reason I mentioned plain base bullets is they are less expensive and much easier if you cast them yourself. Normally they have to be run slower than gas checked bullets and they are sensitive to having the base melted/burned by certain powders.
I’ve never been able to get cast loads to shoot as accurate as jacketed loads in my high power rifle, but they are plenty accurate enough (1MOA) to show mistakes.
I’m pretty sure if they work in a 6.5x55 they will work in a 260.

[Dee]

Thanks for the additional info it was just the kind of thing I was wanting to know. Now I just have to decide if I like HP silhouette as much as I do smallbore and air rifle sils.

Dee

[fwt1712]

You could also try looking at Hodgdon's website and see what Trail Boss loads are suggested. They have some loads listed as well as a 'formula' to use in developing loads generally.

I know a lot of the lever action guys here are using it very succesfully in 30-30s/45-70s etc with velocities in the 1200fps range. I assume you could drop them back to the 1030 range.

I have done some initial testing with reduced loads in my 7-08 (26gr x AR2207) with 140gr corelokts, but they're probably doing around 2000fps i.e. definitiely super sonic, but they are quite accurate and very mild to use.

regards,
Nigel.

[chickenchoker]

You might try going to http://castboolits.gunloads.com and do a search for "cat sneeze" loads.

It has to do with shooting light weight cast boolits with a low brinell hardness at slow speeds for short range practice. Since the bullet has a low velocity it operates at a lower pressure so the bullet has to be softer to obturate. Most cat sneeze rounds are used with pistol or black powder cartridges so you might have to have a set of brass set aside just for this purpose or anneal your brass on a regular basis. With a good bullet trap you can reclaim your lead and recast. Good short range target and vermin control. Lots of fun in a lever gun.

[psteiger]

Dee,

You should have said something when you were here. I have a 300 Whisper AR. When you get ready to build, we need to talk.

p

[wasa43]

For about a year I have been using a 150 gr matchking with accurate 5744 for a velocity of 2,000 fps as my chicken and pig load in the 7-08. This powder was designed for low loading density, and the load is very accurate and easy on the shoulder. I got the charge by calling Accurate, not out of a manual, so don't want to publish it, but anybody can call Accurate and get the info.

Chris