Need help getting started with an airgun plan...

[Jason]

I've been selling off a few things to get started with a plan of acquiring an airgun to practice for smallbore and highpower silhouette with. I had given up on the idea until I saw all those wonderful pneumatics down at Winnsboro and got to shoot the Open match with an Anschutz 2002 (?) single-stroke pneumatic. Now I've got the bug and am trying to figure out what gun to buy. Based on that, I can figure out how much it's going to cost and start finding other unnecessary items to help me build funds. I just bought a case of Eley ammo for me and a rifle for my daughter, so the toy fund is a little low.

My goal with this rifle is cheap and fairly quiet practice that I can do every single day to practice for smallbore and highpower matches. I don't know if I will ever shoot a silhouette match with it, but I'd like to not have a rig that won't be legal for silhouette should the opportunity present itself. I need the accuracy to be on par with my silhouette custom rigs (at scaled down distances, of course), and at least as importantly, I need the trigger to be as good as and as similar as possible to my custom silhouette rigs. I want it to be a pneumatic, and would probably prefer a single-stroke pneumatic for the sake of simplicity and keeping the cost down. Quiet is good and I don't intend to do anything other than shoot at targets with this gun, so what I saw as lower velocity "target" rifles down in Winnsboro seem perfect. The Anschutz SSP that I shot that match with was excellent, but I'm guessing quality like that is not cheap. This is where I need help. I really have no idea how much these rifles cost or where I can go about looking for a good used one. My entire frame of reference is the one day of air rifle matches at Winnsboro, so I also don't know what particular brands/models to look for and need suggestions there, also.

So... with all of that said? What should I look for and where should I look?

[Dee]

So the airgun bug sunk it's teeth into you at Winnie eh? They are very addictive and fun to shoot on the cheap and the practice is great. If you can hold a 10m rifle and break the shot, follow through and hit your target you can be pretty sure it would be a hit with any rifle. Shooting the 10m rifles outside in the wind at 45 yards is a real challenge to say the least.

Ok as for your search... Lots to think about but when you narrow it down to SSP rifles you are really limited in the high end you seek. The Annie 2002, FWB 601-603, Steyr LG1 and Walther LGR are about the only rifles out there with the quality your seeking. The problem with the FWB is the loading gate usually needs to be changed to a short gate to get the scope on it. The others should be fairly easy to scope althought I am not all that familiar with the Walther SSPs.

I just sold my LG1 to get a Annie 8002 PCP and I can tell you not having to pump it is a big plus in S. Louisiana not having to pump in summer is a BIG PLUS.. In all honesty if your going to spend the coin for something in the high end SSP range save up a little more and get a PCP and a pump or tank if fills are easy to come by. Nothing wrong with the SSPs the triggers are pretty much the same as the PCPs. Guess I am just partial to PCP now that I have another one and I already had the 4500 psi tank to fill with. One fill of a 4500 psi tank will give you over 10000 shots before you have to get it topped off and a single fill of the rifle between 200-300 shots so a pump is actually feasible to use for filling them up as the cylinders are low volume and the shot count is so high per fill you could shoot a few days between needing to top the cylinder off.

As for where to look and what to expect to pay... try Pilkingtons Targettalk forums, Yellow Forum Classifieds and Gunbroker at times. What you are looking for comes up now and then but not often especially the 2002, you will see FWBs the most Stay Away from the 600 series it had cocking linkage issues all the later models are fine but the loading gate may be an issue as I mentioned.

Expect to pay from $700-1200 for a SSP depending on condition and what set of sights it may have included. If you get a rifle and have no use for the sights you can recoup a few hundred selling them off to help pay for the rifle.

For a PCPC you will be i the $1200 range for starters going on up uP UP



Any questiosn feels free to ask. Right now it is a buyers market and prices used are good, you might consider running a want to buy ad and see what turns up many guys hav a stable of 10m rifles and will part with one now and then when given incentive.


Dee

[frog5215]

I've been shooting AR silhouette since 1986.
For several years I shot only Sporter, with an HW 55, and then an Air Arms TX200, still a very hard gun to beat. Springers are self contained and quiet, but powerful and require a heavier trap than Olympic type guns.
An "obsolete" springer match gun like an RWS 75 or FWB 150/300 is quiet, self contained, and durable, often available for $600-750. These are a great value.
More recently "obsolete" guns like any of the SSPs from Anschutz, RWS, FWB, or Walther are very good value, are self contained, and pretty quiet. Often about $1000.
If you have NO PLANS to shoot bullseye, guns without sights should be cheaper by a significant amount; often, cast off guns from scholastic programs have missing/damaged sights.
Recently FWB and Walther have offered entry level PCPs at about $1250, great value. These are 4500psi guns advertised to get 350-400 shots per 3000psi charge. With a 4500psi charge, I suspect they'll shoot forever (or maybe 500-600 shots (speculation).
Walther is also offering a "Hammerli AR20" @ $850, sharing air cylinders with the $1250 Walther LG30. This thing has an extruded frame that looks like it will make it very easy to scope (often something of a problem with these guns- Europeans have no idea what we do with these things.
The big downside of these PCPs is the need for a tank, although with 400+ shot capacity, I guess you don't have to haul the tank around like the 50-60 shot/charge field target power guns.
For your stated purpose, any of the match type guns will serve admirably. If you shoot much actual silhouette, you may wish for an Open Class gun; the light pellets (8gr domes) and 550-600fps velocity make turkeys and rams a challenge with any sort of range condition. 800fps with a 10gr pellet is less frustrating.
But for hold, trigger, and follow through training at any range, the target guns are great.
A few months back I finally acquired an Anschutz 2002 and overall am pleased. The firing behavior of any pneumatic is glorious, no recoil of any type, no twang.
I chronographed this rifle at an informal shoot over the weekend: about 550fps with JSB Exact lights, as expected. I had to give about $1K in a GB auction.
Since I already have the tank, I've wondered if I might not have been better off with the Walther LG30 or Walther/Hammerli instead, but I've wanted one of these Anschutzes for several years. The attraction of the Walther or Walther/Hammerli is that they share cylinders with my WaltherLG 300 Hunter, so no new fittings, etc.
Do not, under any circumstances consider a PCP unless you also plan to purchase a tank. The pumps are not really a viable option; it's a waste of money MUCH better applied to a standard 88ft scuba tank, or, if price is no object, a carbon fiber/kevlar 4500psi tank (1/2 the weight of an aluminum tank).
I hope some of this helps.

[jjp]

Jason, I'm right there with you. Winnsborro was the first time I ever got to shoot several air rifles. I'm going to start culling a few guns to fund a pair of new air rifles. I'm going to get a TX200 and a Target rifle. I really like the way the walther LG200 shot, but I'm leaning toward an Anschutz 8008 or a 9003.

frog and dee, thanks for the great air rifle info.

Has anyone shot a 9003? Pondering the differences between it and the 8008.

[Finprof]

Hi Jason:

It was nice meeting you in Winnsboro. I started in air silhouette a year ago and bought a used LG 300XT from Limey and then bought a new TX 200. The chice between a Walther LG300 and an Anschutz 2002/8002 is a tossup. I like the loading port on the Walther better because I am naturally clumsy and can hit the big tray easier. I like the Anscutz trigger better, but it is not that much better. The Walther fits me a bit better also. I would choose whichever one I could make fit better.

[Dee]

My understanding is that the 8002 S2 and the 9003 S2 are the same barreled action and trigger with the 9003 offering more adjustability overall for a more refined fit which is a plus in 10m match shooting but not all the big a deal for a silhouette rifle and practice rig IMO. I have tried to set mine up where it mimics my 1712 in LOP and Drop in the butt without getting anything like the adjustable butt hook all out of wack and contorted into a shape that would never resemble the feel of the smallbore rifle.

The club model Annie 8001 is a 8002 barreled action minus the fancier adjustable stock and barrel weights. Check CMP if you are a member as they usually offer these rifles, the one I have came from their program. I like both the LG300 and Annie triggers, loading is easy for me on either rifle, just what you prefer I guess swing out lever and direct pellet into breech placement or swing up lever and probe assisted seating of the pellet. You will not shoot better than either one anytime in this life.



Dee

[thskeer]

I shoot air for practice only, and only at 14 yards. I know that is an odd distance, but I took a 10m reduction and shoot it from the extra distance to make it a little harder.

I was\am looking for an anschutz LG 380 or 2001 superair. I used to have the superair and it was my favorite SSP air rifle, bar none. I dont think I'll ever go to a PCP as that is too much on the logistics.

As for my current training set up I bought a used FWB 300 from Jim Edmonds(spelling) and put a Leupold 6.5-20 EFR from Chicken George on top. I have that same scope on 3 other silhouette rifles, so the visuals are about exactly the same. Jim is the Air Gun version of Mac Tilton in that he travels to Europe often, buying used rifles and inporting them for us!!!

Jim got my FWB for about 575, and though it has some external wear it is a great shooter, plus the fit is very similar to my 54.18 MS. These guns were olympic level just 15 to 20 years ago, and they'll still shoot tiny little groups. The triggers are alos excellent; I added weight to mine as it was too light!

I'd suggest you contact jim (JimE on target talk if I remember correctly) and tell him what you are trying to accomplish. He'll have some advice and should help find a shooter too.

I love the training I get with the air rifle, and i'm sure it is helping with my SB and HP scores too. Not only that, but I just bought 5000 RWS R10 pellets for about 100 dollars, shipping included. 5000 rounds of eley match would have cost me 1200, and I'd have to drive to the range to train instead of just heading down to the basement. Air rifles will pay for themselves in a year or 2 if you shoot much.

Tom

[jjp]

Thanks for the info.

I like the Walther LG300 XT universal and the Anschutz 8001 Club. Especially if they are the same mechanically as their expensive brothers. I don't think I need a stock that moves in every direction.