Tax Rebate Special

[BlauBear]

Kitty and I have been kicking around the idea of a "Tax Rebate" special smallbore class with very simple rules:

• Rifle, scope and rings must be freely available for $600 or under.
• Equipment may be tuned but not altered.

That's it - no other rules. Any weight, any profile, but except for cleaning, oiling and torquing everything must be box stock. Possible exceptions are removal of sights to accommodate a scope but no bedding, trigger kits, stoning or polishing - if you want a smoother trigger, get it the old fashioned way by dry firing a lot. If the factory trigger is adjustable, fine, tweak it down to 2 pounds, but no Brooks kits or clipping coils off springs.

As for making the price, bring a recent (last six months) screen shot from Gun Broker to prove a similar rifle was publicly available within the price limit. That's an example, and you could use any legitimate method to validate cost in case of a question.

Shipping, sales tax and FFL transfer fees would not be factored in, just current selling price of the item.

The idea here is to lower the entry cost of our sport.

Thoughts?

[Quonset Hut]

Fugettaboutit.

Why bother? When Hunter was off the shelf, some of us started with a $60 pawn shop Marlin 25 and a $40 4-12 scope. It did fine for a couple years. When the equipment hurts you from moving up more, you upgrade. That was fifteen years ago. You still can show up with what you already have. Getting started now is a CZ 452 and a moderate priced scope. I wouldn't bother with the trigger kit, leave it stock so that you can also do CMP Rimfire Sporter, which has a three pound trigger limit.

Most people will let newbies shoot their rifles at practice. Most folks in this sport have a starter gun or two they can lend to new shooters at practice and matches.

You learn the sport and shoot better with whatever you have and move up in class. Excellent equipment does make it easier to move up. In hunter way back when, I did two seasons on the Marlin, and then two with a NS522. That brought me to AA.

People will use any excuse if they don't want to practice and compete. People who DO want to practice and compete will do things like I did at start, using that Marlin 25 to get Distinguished Expert in NRA Light Rifle Qualification. All it took was putting in the time to practice that and silhouette - and shooting up a case of CCI Standard that summer.

[BlauBear]

Approach it as a thought problem then: If you were going to steer a beginner with a $600 budget toward a setup, what would it look like? Many of us are pretty comfortable with the idea of bedding a rifle or other minor 'smithing chores that intimidate a beginner, so what would you tell them?

[unkmike7]

Kitty and I have been kicking around the idea of a "Tax Rebate" special smallbore class with very simple rules:

The real reason they are going to call it the "Tax Repate special smallbore class" is not because the rifles cost less than $600 (which is the amount of the repate) but because the winner of this new class wins Kitty's and BlauBear's Tax Repates!!.......

Thanks! Kitty and Blaubear!!.......

[BlauBear]

Kitty suggested a claim rule if we actually ran this class in a fun shoot. That is, anyone with $600 could step up and buy the winning rifle, but then we decided that fist fights at NRA matches were a bad thing.

[TURKEYSFEARME]

I like this tax rebate special idea! I think a beginner could put togher a pretty good rig for $600. A savage or a marlin topped with a tasco or bsa scope in about 24x shouldn't go over $600

It would be really interesting if a bunch of us put togher a beginer gun like this and shot an informal match one evening at the nationals!

You can never have too much shooting in one day

[cslcAl]

We used to have a class like you are proposing. It was called " Hunter Rifle" Then again I remember when gas was .25 a gallon, and a glass of beer was .15. Oh; for the good old days. Also two boxes of WW .22 long rifles were a dollar. Now I'm really peaved!!!! Al F.

[BlauBear]

It is a useful thought problem because it forces you to think about priorities. For me, there are some absolute limits on the scope that force different choices on the rifle. If I go with a modest Weaver and decent rings, that's still $250 out of the budget, forcing me into a $350 rifle. That's kind of tight for my taste so I look real hard in places I wouldn't normally go, but the easy route that just barely squeaks in is aWeaver KT-15, BKL rings and a CZ Varmint. Turn me loose with a Brooks kit, or better yet a Timney trigger and Acraglas and watch a modest setup shoot like a laser!

[TURKEYSFEARME]

We used to have a class like you are proposing. It was called " Hunter Rifle" Then again I remember when gas was .25 a gallon, and a glass of beer was .15. Oh; for the good old days. Also two boxes of WW .22 long rifles were a dollar. Now I'm really peaved!!!! Al F.

Yeah the good old days when "hunter rifle class" meant everyone had to actualy shoot a hunting rifle! That's why there arent too many new shooters in silhouette,you can shoot a $600 rig but it is easy to get discouraged whan you have to compete against guys with a gun that cost ten times as much.

[Jason]

Well, I think the one thing that shouldn't be scrimped on is the scope, so I'd have to go with that Weaver V16 w/ 1/4 minute dot for $279 shipped. Assuming the BKL rings cost about $20, that only leaves $300 for the rifle. I see used CZ 452 rifles for that, but never more than one or two a month, counting all the different CZ 452 models. If I had a particular one in mind (Varmint, for instance), it could very easily take me a few months to get one for $300, which might disqualify it for this question. In the meantime, I could stick the V16 scope and BKL rings on whatever rifle I had lying. Then I could be shooting the match and gaining skill while I tried to find that great "intro" rifle, which would in reality be the "next step" rifle since the rifle I was using during that search was the real intro rifle.

[pistolero45]

Okay, I feel compelled to chime in..... I've played quite a few gun games over the years, and one thing I have observed are people who try to "buy a win" with top of the line equipment. They can become frustrated when that win does not happen.

Of course there is nothing wrong with great equipment, but an old PPC shooter once told me that competition shooting is 90% mental and only 10% equipment. He also went on to speculate that when one reaches the top of his sport, these percentages switch to 90% equipment and 10% mental.

Granted, one needs good equipment and proper technique. But very few people are willing to dedicate the time needed to master the mental aspects of this or any other shooting sport.

To answer the original question, I feel just about any stock .22 rifle, topped off with an inexpensive scope of at least 12x, and firing budget ammo should be capable to taking a new shooter to AA class. Once the individual is able to shoot up to the ability of his/her equipment, then it is time for an upgrade.

[Gator]

We used to have a class like you are proposing. It was called " Hunter Rifle" Then again I remember when gas was .25 a gallon, and a glass of beer was .15. Oh; for the good old days. Also two boxes of WW .22 long rifles were a dollar. Now I'm really peaved!!!! Al F.

Yeah the good old days when "hunter rifle class" meant everyone had to actualy shoot a hunting rifle! That's why there arent too many new shooters in silhouette,you can shoot a $600 rig but it is easy to get discouraged whan you have to compete against guys with a gun that cost ten times as much.

This is a topic I have argued since before the 2006 Nationals in Ridgway when we began looking at the difference in scores between Standard and Hunter. Found out the top 13 places in both guns shot identical aggregate scores, indicating that there was not much of an advantage to

[BlauBear]

Despite some very fine equipment, my best score was shot with a box stock Remington 504 (that the factory fixed on their second try) and a Leupold VXII. Nice gear for sure, but I've struggled to beat that score with better rifles and only managed to equal it. Good equipment only gets out of your way or, as Kitty says, eliminates variables, but it does not make you a better shooter. That takes practice.

I would be a better shooter today if I had spent more time practicing and less time trying to build the ideal rifle. (More heresy!)

[unkmike7]

I've played quite a few gun games over the years, and one thing I have observed are people who try to "buy a win" with top of the line equipment. They can become frustrated when that win does not happen.

Of course there is nothing wrong with great equipment, but an old PPC shooter once told me that competition shooting is 90% mental and only 10% equipment. He also went on to speculate that when one reaches the top of his sport, these percentages switch to 90% equipment and 10% mental.

Granted, one needs good equipment and proper technique. But very few people are willing to dedicate the time needed to master the mental aspects of this or any other shooting sport.

This is good advice...And, very well said!!.......

[lone ringer]

I am as concerned as you guys are regarding the decline of our sport and I really do not think that we could bring back the number of shooters we used to have if only we did it with less expensive equipment.

I believe that the high scores top shooters get are more intimidating to beginners than custom equipment they see in the firing line. Also we have been shooting SB rifle silhouette for 30 years and the sport for good or bad has evolved to what we have now. I am not going to deny that custom equipment has hurt the sport's attendance but fighting amongst us regarding its use has done more harm to the sport than anything else. I also believe that a lot of us are not having as much fun doing it as we first did and have moved on to other sports like Cowboy Lever action, etc.