Bullet Design For Silhouette

[NewAZShooter]

Hello HP Shooters!

I just received my new reloading equipment from Midway with the plan to use my 30.06 to get started in HP Sil. I just spent the evening reading through the first several chapters in my new Lyman reloading manual. 15 years ago I did some .06 reloading on a friend's press with the plan to go hunting with him, but that never really panned out. I ended up shooting the reloads at paper targets, and until recently had not discharged a firearm in 15 years. I have no experience with bullet weight retention, etc. And I have not fired at any metal targets with a HP until a few weeks ago.

Among many questions I have to work out, I wonder if someone can offer any tips on bullet selection? The manual makes a big deal about selecting the proper bullet to fit the application and use.

I have sort of tentatively decided on 168 gr match bullets for their ability to take all 4 animals with a single bullet (and different powder charges)and their decent ballistic coefficients. I have not really settled on a brand yet, but am looking at Nosler custom competition and Berger VLD match (quite a difference in price).

It is not so much bullet weight and velocity I am wondering about (as I have read quite a bit about that right here at Steel Chickens) but bullet design.

What I read in the manual on bullet selection is largely directed toward game hunting, with lots of talk about penetration, expansion and retained bullet weight. I noticed the one day I have fired at and hit a metal silhouette target with my .06 that the bullet left a rather large grey mark on the metal animal. I was told this is from the lead turning to vapor or powder, or whatever it does, basically disintegrating on contact. When we set up targets, at the base of the targets I did find a few copper outer walls of bullets that had almost no weight left to them. The factory ammo was a 180 grain round nosed bullet I believe designed for big game, but not a special Barnes X or anything, just Federal cheapie.

Can anyone tell me whether a bullet that is designed to retain its weight like a Nosler Partition has any difference at all in terms of its ability to knock over a steel animal? Does that gray puff mean the bullet's energy is doing anything different to the target than say, a solid copper Barnes or Nosler partition? The manual left me with more questions than answers in terms of bullet selection for HP Sil.

Intuitively, it seems that bullet weight and velocity at the target would be the only factors involved with the ability of a bullet to take down a steel animal. But all this information in the manual makes me wonder if there isn't more to it. Again, thanks for the patience if this is a no-brainer question.

[Bob Mc Alice]

NewAZ....Welcome to HP....Shooting your .30-06 at silhouette targets is how many people got their start in this game. You grabbed your hunting rifle from the closet and gave it a try. Next thing you know.....you are hooked. Only now we are talking about metal critters. Bullet construction is not critical for knocking down the chicken-pig-or turkey targets. With good hits, you can get by with as light as 125-130 gr. bullets with 150's being the norm. All of these targets will fall with a solid hit anywhere on the animal. When i practice with my .243, a 70 gr. MK knocks them all down reliably. The ram however, demands to be hit with a heavier well constructed bullet. In .30 cal.we're talking about 165 to 180 grs. I have had good results using the 168 gr. Sierra MK. But any good hunting bullet such as the gamekings , interlocks ,or the ballistic tips,etc. will do a good job assuming a decent hit on the ram. Also, hunting load velocities are not needed for this game. Save your shoulder from prolonged heavy recoil and consider loading your ammo down to lower velocities. My take on your last statement about bullet weight and velocity is yes , bullet weight and velocity are important to be successful at silhouette. But more important will be the ability to hit these targets. The bullets will do their job if you do yours. Practice , practice , practice. Again, welcome to this game.........Bob M.

[carl425]

Hi AZ,

Everybody I know or have talked to online is shooting "match" type bullets for silhouette. For .30 caliber, almost all of them are shooting Sierra MatchKings.

Although some say different bullets of the same weight and velocity perform differently when they hit the ram, I've never heard of anybody that thought that difference would be worth giving up the ballistically superior performance of the match bullets - even though the match bullets are designed to punch holes in paper and the hunting bullet is designed to deliver maximum energy to the target.

For example, assuming a 2600 fps muzzle velocity, a 168 gr matchking (BC .462) will be traveling 1780 fps at 500 yards vs 1592 for a 165 gr hunting bullet (BC .363). I can't imagine bullet construction making up for 188 fps of velocity. Then there is the advantage of less drop/drift to worry about.

[Jerry G]

Bullet construction is not important to knocking down the 3 close animals. You want a light recoil load so you can do lots of shooting without developing a flinch. The 55 pound ram at 500 M is a different thing. You should have a bullet that doesn't disinergrate on impact. When you see the hit on the animal, you should not just see a grey cloud of dust. You also need at least 1200 ft lbs of energy on the ram to take him over. A little more would be good. As for accurcy, a gun that shooots a minute of angle will do you just fine.

Don't break your shoulder with heavy loads just to show everyone how tough you are. If it hurts too much you will quit shooting and that is not a good thing.

If you get hooked, you will probably end up with a 6.5 or 7 mm something but have fun with the 06 for now.

[Jerry G]

I forgot to mention, keep the speed below 2800 fps. You will get better bullet proformance on the target and you won't blow holes on the steel. Fast bullets are what do the target damage.

[NewAZShooter]

Thanks to all for the informative tips and ideas.

I have a few hundred 147 gr. FMJBT Winchester bullets (the cheap ones with a cannelure) to load and fire off (BC .391) before I need to buy more bullets. So I have a little more time to decide on bullet selection.

I like the idea of lightening recoil for the C-P-T, but only if the accuracy is still there and the lower BCs of the smaller shorter bullets don't create a problem in this wind we've been having out here lately. So I'll have to punch some paper and experiment with bullet seating depth, powder loads, etc. On the recommendation of my reloading manual, I bought some IMR4895 to start out loading for the 30.06. So that's where I'll start.

I appreciate the comments about shooter practice being paramount. And since I enjoy shooting so much, I fully intend to practice as much as possible, until my wallet slows me down.

Maybe something like a 130 grain match bullet for the C-P-T and a 180 gr. hunting bullet for the rams would be a better option than just going 168 grain MK for everything. I wonder how much difference there is in felt recoil from the starting loads with a 130 gr. and a 180 gr. in 30.06. I have not fired enough different loads yet to know. And if what I have heard here is right, I am likely to be buying a new 7.08 in the future anyway, rendering all this .30 cal talk moot.

I suppose there is no single answer and these types of choices come largely down to shooter preference. No need to beat a dead horse on this one. I'll get something, start shooting, and have a blast!

Again, thanks for the great information. I can't wait to get some reloads worked up and start hitting some steel!

[Ramslammer]

G'Day All
Firstly welcome to the world of silhouette NEWAZSHOOTER. I hope you get as much fun and friendship as the rest of us. I am inclined to agree with Jerry about too much speed but for another reason. I remember when I went to my first highpower match (it was at the Australian Nationals) ,coming from Tasmania yes where the devil lives I'd never shot High power. So I loaded up some nosler 168 match bullets as fast as they would go. Off to the championships, first ram ever STOOD, Ok I know I can hit them. EASY! Second ram STOOD, I'm thinking this is BS. Third ram yes you guessed it, big dot no fall. By now I'm thinking this ain't easy after all. But the killer is shot four, settle on target, squeeze the trigger, off it goes and bugger me it falls over. I'm feeling pretty happy, when the bloke next to me goes"Who's shooting my bloody Rams?" .
Anyway the point was that too much speed sometimes isn't a good thing(especially according to my girlfriend).
If you can get them my favourite 30cal ram bullet is the Lapua 185gr fmj, will topple them so far every time.
Juddy

[NewAZShooter]

Hello Everyone!

Well, it looks like my first HP Sil match is going to be on the 12th of this month. I was able to get a batch of cases all prepped and primed before I had to leave for work for a few weeks. So when I get back to AZ on the 10th, I'll just have enough time to weigh powder charges and seat those FMJBT 147's just off the lands on Friday night, go out on Saturday and shoot some practice to find some sight settings. Then Sunday is the match.

I won't have time to try out different powder charges and bullet seating depths this time around, so I figure I'll use the starting load and seating depth suggestions in the manual and hope for the best. Might bring along a few boxes of factory loads just as backup. I don't expect to hit many, as I have only fit in a quick practice twice (once with someone else's rifle) and was lucky to hit one or two out of ten rounds. But it should be fun going from SB sil. to those far away targets with the big boomer rifle!!

If anyone has any last minute tips or advice on reloading, shooting, match format, what to expect, or anything else before I shoot my first HP Sil. match, I am all ears. Ramslammer, I'll try and learn from your story and not load too hot, and not shoot anyone else's rams.

I'll be shooting what I've got, which means the 30.06 with an old Simmons 6-18 x 40mm scope and something like 42 grains of IMR4895 (the manual is at home in the shop, so I'm not sure about the powder charge, but will certainly verify at the bench), CCI large rifle primers, etc. And thanks again for your replies to this thread above, which have helped me calm down a bit and get ready.

Oh, one last quick question... What are your thoughts on indexing your reloads and placing them into the chamber oriented the same way every time? Should I mark the case heads and index my brass for these fire-forming rounds like the manual suggests, or is that unnecessary? And if so, how do you suggest I mark them? Permanent marker on case head? Thanks!

[carl425]

Oh, one last quick question... What are your thoughts on indexing your reloads and placing them into the chamber oriented the same way every time? Should I mark the case heads and index my brass for these fire-forming rounds like the manual suggests, or is that unnecessary? And if so, how do you suggest I mark them? Permanent marker on case head?!

I definitely recommend loading them in the chamber point first every time.

[Jim Beckley]

If you are going to shoot your first match at Ben Avery, the rams there are pretty shooter friendly for the most part. I can't speak for the .06, but the 168 Sierra MK's (in .308 Win) were notorious for ringing rams at BA and especially in Mesa, ditto for the Bergers (great for paper, but not steel). A couple of years ago I was shooting a .308 inbetween barrels being replaced and I believe I was using a 175 Sierra MK that worked pretty well on rams. As far as indexing your brass if you do it with a magic marker it will eventully wear off in a tumbler, take a file and mark it that way, or just buy some quality brass such as Lapua and don't worry about it.

[Ramslammer]

G'Day All
I'm with Jim. I have about 500 Lapua cases for my .308 and they are all the same with out having to bugger about with uniformers, turners, etc. You can never have too many good cases!
Juddy

[NewAZShooter]

Thanks for the tips everyone. After reading Jim's post, I decided against the 168 MKs for rams and went with a bit heavier ram bullet.

For my first match I loaded Hornady 110 gr. spire points with a flat base for chickens and pigs, Winchester 147 gr. FMJBT for turkeys and 178 gr. A-Max for rams, using the starting load of IMR 4895 in my manual for each. The 110 and 147s were lying around the shop from years gone by, so I wanted to use them up. Even though the new Rem. cases were being fire-formed for these, they still shot pretty well for those distances. Well, I should say the short line 110s and 178 ram loads shot well. Those Winchester 147s were very inconsistent in weight, and it shows on paper.

After the match I weighed my last 450 of those and sorted into groups weighing within one tenth of a grain. Extreme spread in weight was 5.2 grains, with 90% of the bullets falling within a 1.5 grain spread. So I am hoping that by loading the bullets that weigh the same, I will get better groups so I can use these up. I'll just have to verify sight setting on turkeys when I change weights. Then I'll look for a 150-gr. bullet for turkeys when these are gone. BTW, I weighed 50 of my 178 gr. A-Max bullets, and they all weighed exactly 178.2 grains. No variation in weight at all. That told me how cheap those Winchester 147s are.

In terms of knock-down reliability, everything I hit with all loads went down in practice and in the match. The "spider" or impact mark with the 110s and 178s was a nice small grey dot, but the 147s left a huge grey splatter on the turkey. A 200 meter group with 110s at the chickens distance on paper off the bench was about an inch and a quarter. Turkeys with the unsorted 147s grouped 7.5 inches on paper at 385 meters. Still need to shoot pigs and rams for groups on paper, but the impact off the bench on rams was right where I aimed it. I even purposely went for some low belly shots to see how reliably it would take down the rams. So far so good.

Oh, my first match was great fun! I knocked down 11/40, 4 rams, 4 chickens, 2 pigs, 1 turkey. A humbling experience and a great challenge! Can't wait to go at the far steel again in the next match. Thanks again for all the help!

[Jerry G]

The turkeys go over easier than the pigs.

[NewAZShooter]

Thanks, Jerry. Good to know.

My idea behind finding a heavier bullet for turkeys was to get a better B.C. to track better (deflect less) through this wind at the 385 meter distance, not really for knock-down power. I have read here that any .30 cal bullet will take over C-P-T and I believe it. Turkeys seem awfully small at that distance, so I worried about using those 110 grain flat-based bullets with their .240 B.C. in our wind. It seemed that I could take out some of the wind factor if I could find a bullet with a better B.C. Some of the 150-155's can get .460 BC or better, so they looked more appealing than the 110's for that reason.

Some day I will have to get my hands on some ballistics charts so I can see what difference in inches our typical ten or twenty MPH wind has on a bullet with a .240 vs. a .460 B.C. I really don't know if it is enough to cause a miss at 385 meters or not. But as has been said, I am sure developing the ability to break 'em in the center is more important that worrying too much about B.C.


Cheers!

[Ramslammer]

G'Day All
I used 155palma's with 42grns of Varget (2208 in Australia) for everthing except rams and they are very accurate, I could hit dots on targets easily (off the bench). They would be worth a try.
Juddy