Does silhouette need an overhaul?

[Cimarron Red]

So, Greg,

You don't know me from a load of hay, yet you're perfectly comfortable launching into an ad hominem attack on me. And of course you assume that all who criticize the NRA, with good reason, do nothing to foster the sport. Such hubris! Whining about the 'whiners' is hardly constructive either! Have you ever had a set to with Greg Connor? I have had several, and they were not pleasant. So you can keep your vitriol; I've heard enough of it!.

[GregG]

My reply was not directed at you but to the group. Lets blame the NRA and Greg Connor for our lack of participation. Greg C is a really easy target. I have no love nor do I hate the man. I have seen him do things at national that are questionable. Greg is doing the job his managers at NRA want him to do else he would be out of a job.

My question still stands. We can blame the NRA or Greg all we want. If silhouette is in trouble it is because of US, not the NRA.

Greg

[teetertotter]

I don't think it needs an overhaul. I am of the opinion it is the responsibility of the local clubs to promote the individual sports? How do you envision the NRA promoting all the shooting sports? So what if it is a hard sport for TODAYS so called ,"Society? Is SB Silhouette harder than pistol paper competition at 50 yds. BR harder than SB Silhouette? I think it is what you make of it. Of our 900 members, the pistol group has 20 weekly competitors, CMP 10, BR 10, Black powder 6, Cowboy Action 12, and Silhouette 7. We, apparently, have only a handful of interested competitors total out of 900, in the different disciplines, and are promoted in the clubs quarterly news paper. 5pm a problem shooting time from May to October - once a week, Saturday a bad time, or do we have a majority that don't like competition and shoot on their own time? Those that are in competition, for the most part, are 40+. Do they have time to bring their kids out that prefer video games, don't like sports, or are involved a lot in school/summer sports programs? I am just brainstorming. The individual members want to commit in any shooting activity on a weekly basis, during our April - October months? Do they prefer golfing for example, and plink occasionally? I don't know, do any of you?

[GregG]

You get an A+ for you post!

[teetertotter]

I don't think it needs an overhaul. I am of the opinion it is the responsibility of the local clubs to promote the individual sports? How do you envision the NRA promoting all the shooting sports? So what if it is a hard sport for TODAYS so called ,"Society? Is SB Silhouette harder than pistol paper competition at 50 yds. BR harder than SB Silhouette? I think it is what you make of it. Of our 900 members, the pistol group has 20 weekly competitors, CMP 10, BR 10, Black powder 6, Cowboy Action 12, and Silhouette 7. We, apparently, have only a handful of interested competitors total out of 900, in the different disciplines, and are promoted in the clubs quarterly news paper. 5pm a problem shooting time from May to October - once a week, Saturday a bad time, or do we have a majority that don't like competition and shoot on their own time? Those that are in competition, for the most part, are 40+. Do they have time to bring their kids out that prefer video games, don't like sports, or are involved a lot in school/summer sports programs? I am just brainstorming. The individual members want to commit in any shooting activity on a weekly basis, during our April - October months? Do they prefer golfing for example, and plink occasionally? I don't know, do any of you?

___________________________________________
I forgot, Trap shooting Monday nights from 5-10pm under the lights when needed - They have maybe 50 at the most, weekly. They can come and go as they please. Now is that a tough discipline? I don't like trap as not a bird hunter per say and the sport does not appeal to me. We have so many disciplines, which to choose from and this is all we get out of 900+ members.
32 board members w 4 board of directors, that attend our monthly club meetings and maybe 5 stragglers, scheduled one night a month from 7-8pm out of 900+. People to busy to commit to anything? It is the old timers today, keeping things alive at our club.

Everyone is invited to our Frost Iron Match, January 25, for 40 rounds! It is an NRA Approved Tournament. I forecast 25F and windy! Test your skills. I'm done

[Sosalty]

Great posts. Agree that some posters haven't done that much and it's not going to grow without dedication. I'm a newbie and don't plan to devote a part of my 'golden years' to promoting silouette. However, I will chip in with cautious ideas and bring my 2nd 22 rifle just in case someone is checking us out and might be swayed to shoot. I did devote a small chunk of my life to helping run a USPSA club back in the 90's. There are some universals amounst shooting clubs of various disciplines.

Online it's easy for typed words to be taken not the way they were intended. By my 'overhaul' statement, I'm using the words of this thread's title. Probably more consice I should say 'modernize.' Going online won't be earthshaking, but it definetly will pay dividends long run. Finding match results is a major venue for shopping into other shooting sports by some. (see Cimarron Reds post below: recruiting from other shooting sports; right now, they're recruiting from silouette) So, over the years a miscellanous few will find us that wouldn't otherwise. The labor saving is small, but is there once the bugs are worked out. Old timers understandably don't care for shiny little screens that are hard to read and foreign compared to pencil/paper.

There's tons of ideas to pick from, and too much experimentation can kill a club. Yet trying a well thought out shooting or scoring or awarding variation once a year keeps a club from getting stale. Dustin reports his club has had success with handicapping. My opinion is to get parents to bring their teens and have 'em shoot front rest until they gain confidence and a certain skill/safety level. After all, when teaching baseball, football, golf ect. . . you don't want to trounce the kidos. Of course, one needs to be there to have any knowledge whether that'd have a chance at any one club and it's just one of many directions to explore.

NRA is our anchor. Be nice if they promoted, but confrontation or complaining only allows a bit of venting with no positive results. If a club took up the online cause and improved on NRA, surely they could blend and support innovative club endeavors.

I've alot of respect for the doers and workers though occassionly us freeriders can brainstrom a worthy idea or 2.

[Cimarron Red]

Sorry that I misunderstood you Greg. We're fine!

As to our doing things for the sport, I try recruit to shooters from other shooting games to try those I participate in. But here in southern Colorado no clubs offer BPCR, lever action or other silhouette games. So I drive two hours south to the Whittington Center or two hours north to the Golden Gun Club near Denver. The Whittington CLA shoots draw about 20 shooters to their monthlies, and they shoot all three lever guns in one day. Golden gets close to their limit of 48 shooters most of the time(actually 48 guns as some shooters shoot in two categories). They shoot CLA three times a month year around, weather permitting, with a separate date for rifle cartridge, pistol cartridge and .22 LR. Golden does not shoot by NRA rules as they have a single-shot category and a single action revolver category, and they require lead bullets only in PCLA. Allowing single-shot rifles and revolvers is a good idea, and one of the things other clubs can offer.

Back to the NRA, they produce television shows on the outdoor channel, and I'd like to see them air commercials featuring the various shooting disciplines, especially silhouettes. I don't recall ever having seen one.

[GregG]

I have several silhouette nationals recorded from television. We too have tried many things to attract new shooters. We are staying about even. Normally for Houston a city of 3-4 million is 15. People come and go. We continue to try to encourage but as I have said on this thread before. Many people would rather shoot, IHMSA, IDPA, etc, with their glock.

Unfortunately the precision shooting sports are hanging in by a thread. Bullseye, NRA Pistol Silhouette, 3P, silhouette, etc. These sports are old and tired compared to others. This does not mean they are not interesting, nor are going away. But look at the NRA national at Camp Perry, as I recall NRA week do down year over year. CMP week I believe is up.

[RBriscoe]

The NRA isn't going to so TV Shows on silhouette shooting and how many people would see it if they did? Has anyone actually watched any of their "stuff"?

There are things that can be done at relatively low cost though. Start a YouTube channel and post videos of events, interviews, instruction or whatever comes to mind. Hit the hunting and shooting websites to try to attract traffic. Hit up various industry companies to post something on their website mentioning it and linking to the channel.

Don't worry about NRA sanction for club events. If people want to try something, just do it! Many clubs have a "sandbaggers" class for the very young kiddos which is sort of like T-Ball. The rules vary a little from club to club, but are generally similar. There is nobody sanctioning it at all. If you want to have a "Hunter's Silhouette" event where anything that doesn't tear up targets is welcome with, for example, chickens shot standing, pigs sitting and turkeys and Rams prone or wit shooting sticks, just do it. If you think 40 rounds is too many for those rifles, just do 20. Don't let them change sight settings once the match starts to keep it fun. If you can bring more people to the range with whatever you are doing, what's wrong with that?

The silhouette committee will always be a problem so long as the NRA continues to serve as the sanctioning body.

I continue to doubt, sadly, that there is or will be sufficient interest to create a viable alternative sanctioning body unless one or two of the major clubs just do it on their own.

[Another Dang 9]

The NRA isn't going to so TV Shows on silhouette shooting and how many people would see it if they did? Has anyone actually watched any of their "stuff"?

Back to the NRA, they produce television shows on the outdoor channel, and I'd like to see them air commercials featuring the various shooting disciplines, especially silhouettes. I don't recall ever having seen one.

RBriscoe I think watching golf is a waste of time but people watch it. Mostly because of big sponsor money. The armchair golf pros always think they could have made that putt for $50K too.
Cimarron Red I agree the NRA should be doing more the highlight each discipline on these shows on TV. Not just the run and gun stuff. They do the "this old gun" spot every week why not the events?

[GregG]

This thread is in my mind is long in the tooth. The general thread subject was started by Dustin with some very good ideas to help increase his local activities. The thread then degraded into, we hate Greg Conner, we hate the NRA, the NRA does nothing to support the organization, the rules committee is the problem, etc.

First why would the NRA put anything about Silhouette in their programs? Remember the NRA is a business and has to make or cover their costs. They do not control what TV shows get aired and the channels are for profit corporations. The TV stations will only air what they can make money from showing. The way thet make money is by selling advertising. Put yourself as a business looking to advertise on TV. Do you advertise on shows that have limited market? Do you make products for a limited market? Or do you invest you marketing and R&D into areas where you can make money. I can answer this NO you support what is the fastest selling items on the market. Who would have thought 10 years ago, Remington, Ruger, Smith and Wesson would all be making AR platforms.

I still think many of the contributors to this thread seem to think, if we plaster poster and show things more would show up. <HUMOR> OK lets reverse that I hear NRA Bulls-eye pistol is great and is a lot of fun. <HUMOR OFF> I think everyone on this board should go purchase pistols to shoot like bulls-eye and support bulls-eye. Are there any takers? How about of the NRA puts this on all their TV shows, you going to switch sports?

IMHO the number of people shooting is declining, they are shooting the sports they are interested in and many of the NRA sports are declining because times have changed. Lack of advertising, blaming the NRA, the rules committee, creating a new sanctioning body, are not going to change this.

The only way we grow the sport is by our own local work. IMHO we need to take responsibility like adults and stop trying to blame someone else. Get busy bring some friends to the next match? OR at least introduce them to shooting.

[African Villager]

This past weekend attended a league shoot for the first time in a few years and wow was I surprised to see the attendance( Mostly Small bore Shooters -Handgun/Rifle)- its Summer so the big guns only start coming out in April.

in SA we are Part of IMMSU and compete internationally on the traditional events .

To my amazement I have discovered apparently from last year they have added several other "non Official" events to stimulate attendance and seems to have the necessary effect. These non Official events are for SA and inter provincial matches but not international the ones that got my Fancy was .

1) Varmint Rifle .22hornet/.222/.204/.223 - excluding .22swift/22-250 c- 125m p - 150m t - 175m R - 200m.
2) Magnum Rifle ( 20shots ) 7mm rem mag - .458 c- 125m p- 150m t- 175m R- 200m ( Chuck Norris leads this one ) double thick targets .
3) Small bore Semi auto ( AR style .22) c-25m p-50m t-75m R- 100m
4) Varmint semi Auto ( AR style .223) c -125 p- 150m t- 175m R-200m
5) Big bore semi Auto ( AR Style .308) c- 100 p-200 t- 300m R-385m

[glen ring]

I have been a shooter for almost 50 years, but only tried silhouette about 7 years ago. The sport looked like fun. I tried IHMSA with a 22 buckmark and was amazed at the 25 power, scoped custom guns that were WAY out of my league. I shot a few matches and that was that. I bought a Kimber .22 with a leupold scope and tried smallbore silhouette. A few cranky old farts at a match convinced me to back off that sport. Then a friend of mine ( a military sniper ) begged me to try Cowboy Lever Action. I shot a few matches with a buckhorn sight .357 rifle and found the folks VERY helpful and extremely friendly. I had my pick of spotters when I showed at a match and had many guns offered to shoot. Scoped rifle highpower silhouette has always intrigued me and I was at the national Championships at Raton this year asking about equipment and I was generally just watching the shooters getting information on the sport. I must admit the sport needs a few ambassadors. I have heard folks blaming the NRA, the Political trends and everything else, but from my point of view a lot of shooters need to look in the mirror and ask themselves what they've done to welcome someone who is interested in the sport. I ask a LOT of questions and have competed in trap, skeet, pistol sports, archery and was even a road racer for a while, and of all those adventures, I have found Highpower Silhouette to have the least number of ambassadors.

[Jim Beckley]

Mr. Ring, I just went back to Jul 12th, 2011on your post first rifle, my math might be off a little but if I myself was still asking questions darn near 4 years after I said that I wanted to try something, I'd take a stab in the dark guess that someone isn't really serious about trying something. As far as an ambassador for HP goes don't wait for someone to kiss your rear just right. Grab a gun and go shoot!

[glen ring]

Jim...I think you've made my case. Now you go have a better day.