Does silhouette need an overhaul?

[dustinflint]

I don't see any major rule changes on equipment happening. I think that the silhouette committee knows that a major rule change would be the end of the NRA running silhouette. There would definitely be a break away.

Dustin

[Bob259]

You're right Paul, I know several shooters (a few big name shooters in the shooting sport)that have never been back after spending big money building chin guns only to have them banned.

[GregG]

I don't see any major rule changes on equipment happening. I think that the silhouette committee knows that a major rule change would be the end of the NRA running silhouette. There would definitely be a break away.

I truly hope you are right on this. I have seen too many times on this board where individual say the problem is the cost of the equipment we should change the rules to only allow cheap off the shelf guns. Cheap guns are not the savior or the curse of silhouette.

I also have now heard from two silhouette committee members who say a well written letter carries more weight than the annual meeting at the nationals. Sorry in my mind what a bunch of crap, the entire national meeting says we want, and I can derail 100+ shooters desire with a well written letter something is broken.

So I am skeptical.........

Greg

[dustinflint]

The cost of silhouette is nothing compared to other hobbies. People who think silhouette is expensive should try golf or bike racing or car racing or fishing or almost any other sporting game. People say ridiculous things all the time. The committee members know that the rules are going to need to stay consistent or they won't be making rules anymore.

Dustin

[GregG]

Dustin,

I like Bill M, statement on hobbies. Lets see I want to fish, so I go and purchase a $40,000 boat, but now I need a $50,000 truck to tow it, and now I need $5,000 in fishing equipment, to catch 3, 5 inch fish.

Yup hobbies can be expensive....

PS. I do not trust the rules committee.....

[dustinflint]

That's really nothing. Saltwater fishing is a whole different ballgame. I know several people who have spent well over $1 million on a fishing boat -just the boat! That's beside the point though.

I am really surprised that the NRA survived the chin gun fiasco. I was not shooting then but I can't believe that the shooters were so not more resistant than that. They just took their rifles and went home instead of taking action and protecting their sport. That's pretty weak. I think this is why a "National Association of Silhouette Shooters" or something similar is necessary. A United body of shooters would let the committee and the NRA know that they are just one move away from being fired from running the show. A United body of shooters makes it much easier to have a voice to the NRA and much easier to form a governing body if the NRA ever screws things up. People need to be more forceful and quit taking things lying down.

Dustin

[curmudgeon]

I was at the range today, re-sighting in a scope. I had it to myself for a while and was then joined by a younger couple plinking at their swingers. Hmm, I thought, they like shooting steel... So, as they were cleaning up, I wandered by to encourage them to come out to our next club match. I explained the game, showed them some actual size, paper 1/5 targets, and answered their questions. They seemed pretty interested and I hope they're able to come out soon. The only downside that I could detect from their reactions was the time commitment - when we have enough shooters for 2 relays, we don't finish until around 3:00PM

I'm going to try and put together a half-sheet flyer to print and keep copies in my range bag - a general overview of the game and links to: local schedules, rules, and a few of my favorite Silhouette sites

[Innocent]

I remember years ago that there were separate categories for those shooting iron sights....
Mary

[dustinflint]

I remember years ago that there were separate categories for those shooting iron sights....

We have that again! I shot my iron sights classification match the other day. It was lots of fun!

Dustin

[duckgumbo]

After getting on this forum and reading most of the comments, I will say that everyone is spot on regarding Greg and his incompetence in promoting matches, etc in silhouette. He had the opportunity to have an NRA Nationals promoted World-wide through the Louisiana Department of Tourism when we had our 200th Anniversary. We sent letters with our application to Greg and the Silhouette Committee from the Governor, Lt. Governor, State Senator and Representative from our area as well as the Mayor. They would have received over $100,000 in advertising in the official publication from the Louisiana Department of Culture, Recreation and Tourism in print and online. They chose to ignore this so that made us realize that Winnsboro Gun Club was on Greg's shit list and would NEVER host another NRA National Smallbore Championship, although we had hosted two very successful NRA National Championships. Jerry and I got sick and tired and decided to out-draw Nationals. We did that each and every year to the tune of at least 40% more in attendance at the Southern Nationals. We did this by awarding ALL classes the same type of prizes - scopes, rifles, etc. as well as giving Junior shooters many great extra awards. That being said, handicapping the sport to get a National Champion is insane. I am not and have never been a Master Class shooter capable of winning a National Title and would feel rather dumb beating someone that actually practices to be the best! Handicapping only works in fun matches and NOT for Championships.

As Dustin says:
The end game here is to have industry provide the prize money at the top-tier matches. Once the game gets big, the industry pushes it and throws money at it for the top-level shooters. That's why people at the top can almost make a living shooting other games - Go look at the top sporting clays matches, the prize money is not coming from entry fees, it's coming from match sponsors who have an interest in the big matches having a big following. Go look at the top tournament in golf, the prize money is paid by the companies sponsoring the tournament, not the entry fees.

That is total bullshit as you promote the sport by awarding the same caliber prizes to ALL classes. We did not attend matches to see the top shooters get the best prizes and I get a key chain or a trophy. Everyone at a match pays the same entry fee and is entitled to the same type and caliber of awards as the premier shooters! It ain't rocket science! How can a Gun Club like Winnsboro Gun Club host the largest attended match in the world with only 35 members? By actually giving rat's ass about the competitors and guests from the youngest to the oldest as well as from B Class to Master Class.

Winnsboro Gun Club was successful due to several factors: Louisiana Department of Culture, Recreation and Tourism support, local Government support, local business support, national sponsor support and a great cast of Gun Club members that helped put on the Greatest Show on Dirt; but most of all to the hundreds of shooters and their families that attended each year and encouraged us to continue. We worked our asses off each year from January until August running this match by attending the SHOT Show for over 20 years to personally visit our sponsors, writing and calling them within two to three weeks of the SHOT Show to verify sponsorship and get the ads sent to us to put together a 144 page program that was sent out world-wide, printing and mailing the program, setting up committees to do cooking and other items at the match, sending out thank you letters to EVERY sponsor with gifts of food from Tony Chachere's and West Texas Pepper Traders, and then listening to comments and suggestions from the actual participants. We than would get ready to start all over again in January.

All that was basically a full-time job and Jerry and I could not get any one to commit to holding the Southern Nationals according to the standards that we had set, so we retired. Jerry had retired years ago from shooting due to back spasms and I a few years ago from shooting as I did not have anyone that I trusted to spot for me and would travel with me regularly.

I know that this is a long reply, but most of what everyone has said on this thread is correct except about handicapping for a National Champion and awarding the Top shooters the main prizes.

I appreciate all my good friends that I met over the last 25 years in the sport and all their support and advice. Jerry and I listened to each and everyone and finally realized that our late friend Chuck Deason and Dennis Glasscock were right all along and that we should just give everything away as door prizes. Maybe if we had done this we would have had more attendance and not had to work so damn hard decided how to make the different classes equal in prizes that we awarded. Oh well, never too hold to learn. It was just too late for us.

I hope that Silhouette continues to thrive and grow, it will just have to be without me.

David

[Bob259]

Well said Ducky Both Jerry and yourself ran the best match bar none..

[dustinflint]

No one is saying that any championship should be handicapped. I'm sorry I ever mentioned handicapping for fun matches - it appears that most people just don't get it.

Dustin

[CWS]

This conversation is on the ragged edge of needing to go "behind the berm". Dustin: re-read your last post and decide if you really mean we're a little too, um, slow to follow your thinking.

CWS

[dustinflint]

I cannot find any of my posts that advocate handicapping for championship events.

Dustin

[duckgumbo]

I do not want to read all of you posts and responses in this thread or any other for that matter, I just distinctly remember that you said somewhere here that your club champion is based on the handicap system. I may be wrong and old, but if you want me to, I will search and find that quote. All I am saying is that Jerry and I provided how to hold a BIG match successfully for over 20 years and it is not rocket science.

I know that everyone here wants to see Silhouette grow and be promoted better. This will NOT happen unless someone deices to go to the SHOT Show and can prove numbers to the sponsors (which we did religiously) and then you will get them interested. I know that the 3-gun stuff and all the other venues outside of silhouette have a lot of publicity, but I am at a loss as to how to get ANY type of coverage outside of the NRA publication even though Silhouette is so much better than seeing paper punching!

If CWS wants to move this thread behind the berm, just let me know and I will tell you what I really think and do not care who's feelings I hurt as I am out of the sport and will tell the truth!