Greg Connor, the NRA and the Air Rifle Silhouette Worlds

[dustinflint]

Everyone,

This is the email I just recieved from Dennis Willing, Director of the Competitive Shooting Division at the NRA. Thanks very much to Tony Tello for being instrumental in making this happen!

Dustin,

I’ll talk to Greg. Perhaps he doesn’t know that we have working agreements with other clubs to host National Championship events where the NRA does not have direct involvement. After all, we sanction 51 National Championships and we can’t be at them all with a total staff of only about 20.

I use attendance as a guide to the level of sanctioning that the NRA provides. For National Championships I use 50 and consider that low. When attendance drops below 50 it’s probably not worthy of having the title of National Championship.

For 2013 I directed Greg to drop the Long Range Pistol Silhouette Championships and Hunter’s Pistol Championships due to low attendance. Greg talked me into continuing Hunter’s Pistol but it will be reviewed again next year and if attendance remains below 50 that will be dropped as well.

I am more than willing to work with you and supply National Champion medallions to the winners. We’ll give it a couple of years to see what interest there is in this event and then make a determination on whether or not it should continue with that level of sanctioning. If attendance is high we can discuss additional NRA support.

The shooting community itself will determine the future of this event. If they like it, they will attend. If they don’t like it, they won’t attend. We’ll see what the silhouette community wants to do.

If you’ll send me a copy of your proposed program, we’ll get started on this.

You are free to share this information with the shooting community.

Dennis L. Willing
Director, NRA
Competitive Shooting Division

[Bob259]

Great news Dustin.

Everyone,

This is the email I just recieved from Dennis Willing, Director of the Competitive Shooting Division at the NRA. Thanks very much to Tony Tello for being instrumental in making this happen!

Dustin,

I’ll talk to Greg. Perhaps he doesn’t know that we have working agreements with other clubs to host National Championship events where the NRA does not have direct involvement. After all, we sanction 51 National Championships and we can’t be at them all with a total staff of only about 20.

I use attendance as a guide to the level of sanctioning that the NRA provides. For National Championships I use 50 and consider that low. When attendance drops below 50 it’s probably not worthy of having the title of National Championship.

For 2013 I directed Greg to drop the Long Range Pistol Silhouette Championships and Hunter’s Pistol Championships due to low attendance. Greg talked me into continuing Hunter’s Pistol but it will be reviewed again next year and if attendance remains below 50 that will be dropped as well.

I am more than willing to work with you and supply National Champion medallions to the winners. We’ll give it a couple of years to see what interest there is in this event and then make a determination on whether or not it should continue with that level of sanctioning. If attendance is high we can discuss additional NRA support.

The shooting community itself will determine the future of this event. If they like it, they will attend. If they don’t like it, they won’t attend. We’ll see what the silhouette community wants to do.

If you’ll send me a copy of your proposed program, we’ll get started on this.

You are free to share this information with the shooting community.

Dennis L. Willing
Director, NRA
Competitive Shooting Division

[Dee]

Finally a bit of sane thinking is emitted from the NRA, this man seems to get it. I bet we could get 50 people to attend. Just the club members alone who shoot FT and do not shoot silhouette would probably give us at least 25% of that 50. How many of the loco's from Tejas would come for a Nationals? I am betting at least another 25% or more. What I am not getting is why they try to administer rule over so many different types of shooting when they admit they are way to understaffed to ever fully attend to them all. Seems based on that they would be falling over themselves to allow anyone to do anything they aren't capable of regardless of how attendence might start out. If it doesn't go anywhere no loss for the NRA and if it does then it is a positive for them and the shooting sports and that is supposedly their objective and mission IIRC.

The airgun range that we have is considered one of the nicest outdoor airgun only ranges in the country and has hosted National and World Championships in Field Target in the past. This range is a function of our local Rec. Dept. and maintained by them and the shooters. For this reason it is nice to have events there of a National Level as it shows we make good use of the place and try to bring people in from out of town. They have had upwards of 100 shooters for big FT matches in the past. The annual Cajun Classic FT match usually draws about 50 people.

With the match at a National Level for a True National Champion with the right advanced planning and a good amount of keeping the word out there I think we could pull 50 people. Even if we have to get all the old dogs that just shoot smallbore locally to enter we have plenty of rifles

Hell we could even do an all offhand FT match for fun to boot!

So Middle of August it is then!

We can call it the US Air Rifle Outdoor Nationals (aka The Hot and Humid 120)


Dee

[Innocent]

Well guys, I have repeatably sent links to remarks about Greg Conner that appeared on SC to Mr Willing, along with a running email trail of my comments about certain actions on Greg's part at various matches from the Last Dance to the various Nationals I attended at Raton this year. Each had some very sepcific violations of the NRA rules that were directed by Mr Conner. While my previous complaints to the NRA about specific incidents fell on deaf ears, I have continued to pursue Mr Willing with direct issues, and always sent him links to SC when ever the subject has come up. What occured several years ago with regard to a promise of a nationals if we could get 70+ people and then fell through is past. I wish you the best of luck with getting this off the ground, and will do what ever I can to support it.
I will say that mr Willing has at least responded in emails to me, which is more than I can say for the last three competitions directors, and they were all sent both letters and emails.

Mary

[hermit5]

Thanks,Bob259&Mary and others for sticking up for me concerning sanctioned Pa State Championship Military Silhouette matches.
The NRA is to close to the DC Beltway and they act just like them.Maybe if they didn't require those needless jury report forms that waste everybodys time.They would have time to record National records.
I agree with whoever responded about CMP being more shooter accommodating,just wish they did silhouette.THANKS Randy

[Innocent]

Randy,
Having overheard a lot of your conversation with Greg at Ridgway, I can only say, I can hear the same remarks being made to Dustin on the phone about the air rifle. Maybe we should start a conversation with Mr Willing on the Military silhouette as well.

Mary

[TexasSilhouette]

Silhouette committee meets on Nov 3rd, have you submitted your idea?

[atomicbrh]

Choices:
(1) Form your own organization. The Handgun people have been successful with IHMSA for years. It worked for them. You do not need the NRA. The folks in Southeast Louisiana are very capable at running quality matches. Print out your own scorebooks. Make your own rules. Acquire your own 10 row, 5 row pins and Grand Slam pins. You have computer gurus. Create a database of shooters for the Grandslams, long run records and specialty category records. Elect your own officials. You will waste more energy arguing with the NRA over nitpicking matters than the energy it will take to form your own organization.
(2) If you must have that three letter brand "NRA" on your National Match, fight the NRA in COURT. Hire an attorney who shoots silhouette and/or cares enough to learn the nuances of the NRA rules about holding a match to represent you in court correctly. I guarantee you that your attorney will be better informed than the NRA's attorney. Lawyers are cheap right now. Economy is down. Too many recent law school graduates and not enough jobs. You can find Lawyers who passed the BAR and are sworn in to work in any level court now for a whole lot cheaper than $250 per billed hour.
(3) Hold a once a year unsanctioned "Outlaw" National Air Rifle Match. Call it what you want. Insurance should be cheap since it is only Air Rifle. I shoot Oulaw local club Action Pistol and Steel Challenge type matches all the time with rules and dates posted on club forums. They are very popular locally.
(4) Hold a NRA Regional knowing that will be the most it will ever be called and let somebody far away from the Southeast Louisiana region dictate to you what you will and will not do. I thought the whole idea of the Acadians(Cajuns) migrating to a place where most other people could not survive much less prosper was to be free and in control of their own lives and destinies. It is the very essence of our being as Americans to rebel against totalitarian authority.

Large monstrous beauracracies like the NRA and U.S. government only take litigation seriously!

Those two entities will not pay attention to any tactic but that court document being served.

I do not have a horse in this race. I hold no resentment against anyone mentioned in this post. Just my thoughts.
Bobby

[Jason]

Let's hold off on the revolt until we see if this progress that Dustin has made works out. It looks like the immediate goal is being achieved. Hopefully this progress will lead to more and we can all put our energy into the matches instead of frustration.

[dustinflint]

Bobby,

No need to file a lawsuit, we have the go-ahead to put on the nationals. Anyway, we wouldn't have a case in court.

We'll see you at the air rifle nationals in 2013.

Dustin

[Innocent]

Trust me Dustin.....you will not even come close to making the $250/hr running any matches!

Mary

[atomicbrh]

Thread Drift Ahead: I am an old man but one of the best meals I think I ever experienced was at a EASL Match many years ago (when I could afford the gas) carefully prepared by Tureau. I think it was called "sause picant". Oh, wait then there were the 2011 Texas State Smallbore in lunches in Houston organized by the Bayou Club families. They were fantastic also.

Folks, Go to the 2013 Air RIfle Nationals. Even if the Match Directors do not have time to cook, the restaurant cooks are so good in the area that even the Gonzales Shoneys cannot ruin food.

Jerry T's famous cooking quotes: "If you cook chicken and it tastes like chicken; the cook messed up."
"If you feel worse after you eat than before you ate, the cook messed up."
"You should feel better after you eat than before you ate or the cook messed up."
"Say you got a certain number of people to feed. A good cook knows exactly how many 25 lbs. bags of rice it takes to feed them so that everyone has enough to eat.
Bobby

[dustinflint]

We will make sure Tureau cooks something!

Dustin

[Innocent]

Anybody that has attend the nationals that Tureau has been at knows that he cooks.
Dustin, go with what fits your schedules, you will have a tough time trying to fit for all the shooters, if they can come they will. You have taken on a huge task and is a lot to learn for someone who has never shot a nationals yet. David and Jerry run a smooth match but you have no clue what goes on behind the scenes to keep it that way, and you are in for a sharp learning curve.

Mary

[duckgumbo]

To all that have responded in this thread, it seems that all are in agreement with Dustin.

You can quote me anyway you wish regarding the way that the NRA Silhouette Rules Committee and Greg Connor run things . They do not give a rat's ass about the competitors in this sport as evidenced by the way that Winnsboro Gun Club has outdrawn the pathetic NRA Nationals in Smallbore Rifle Silhouette. Our success in hosting an event that had a minimum of 40% more shooters than Mr Connors did each year is because we actually gave a shit and so did our state and our community. Even Ridgway and their community care about how you are treated.

That being said, why doesn't the NRA let the National matches and move them around the country to allow more competitors to have the opportunity to compete at some time? Simple answer - Greg Connor! When he is replaced by someone that has some inkling of marketing and has actually worked in their own business instead of basically a government job, then things may get better and this sport will grow as it should.

Greg Connor is a pathological liar and has not told the whole truth to me on many occasions. That is why we gave up on hosting another NRA Nationals and are now going to hold a Party and outdraw his pathetic Nationals in 2013! Dustin and Jerry Tureau are going to continue the Southern Nationals Smallbore matches and Bill Motl is going to continue the Southern Nationals Air Rifle matches. I am working on the letters to all the sponsors and will have a program out very soon on this forum.