Rules question on loading...

[Jason]

I like "7mm-GURU" better...

[Trent]

Only because .284 McA-hole wouldn't fit.

I like the .284 instead of 7mm. Keeps it decidedly more American. I am hearing rumors already on some of the other forums of the superior ballistics of the .284 McA over the outdated 7-08.

[kevinbear]

[quote="Trent"]Only because .284 McA-hole wouldn't fit.

I like the .284 instead of 7mm. Keeps it decidedly more American. I am hearing rumors already on some of the other forums of the superior ballistics of the .284 McA over the outdated 7-08.[/quote]
Geez, you must have filled up that empty space in your suitcase with bs before coming home from AZ!!!
I should get that 7-08 today, I really appreciate you selling that to Gary/me Trent, I don't care what everyone says about you, your a good guy.

[Trent]

You bet Kevin, just make damn sure he uses it for silhouette.

[DanDeMan]

Guys & Gals,

Why anybody would use more "7mm gun" , for HP Silhouette, than a rifle chambered with a properly designed 7BR reamer is beyond me. All you guys/gals, that have larger case-capacity cartridges are doing is: burning-out your barrels quicker, collecting more recoil, wasting more powder. Need I say more???? OK, I'll do some analysis to buttress my admonition. Stay tuned.

[Bob Mc Alice]

Geez Dan..ouch . You touched a nerve on me with this one.

Let me address your points with my own counter points.

#1.."more 7mm gun"... I started with a .30-06, went to a .308 for a long time then went to the even milder 7-08. Been there ever since. Won't budge.

#2.."burning out your barrels quicker"....I took two carbon factory barrels to 5000 rds. each before being declared dead. I am trying to destroy a few Douglas SS match ones, but two of them at 3500 rds. still look great with the Hawkeye , should go 7500 easy. Barrels are cheap.

#3..."collecting more recoil"....130 150 168 gr. pills launched at 2550 -2600 fps do not generate ugly recoil. Some, but not brutal.

#4..."wasting more powder"....37 to 39 grs. per pull ain't much propellant. Back to #2, powder is cheap.



Man, I am glad you are back on the scene. Bring on this "analysis". Lets get ready to rumble.

Snake, Kevinbear and other 7-08 fans get ready to do battle.

We should start a new thread on this topic. This one has been derailed badly.

[DanDeMan]

Bob,

Please don't tell anybody, but I started HP silhouette with a Sako 7-08, purchased from a gun shop in Austin, TX. I was there on a business trip; it's been down hill from there. It shot 140 Nosler Ballistic Tips into holes that the BR guys would drool about. I'll see if I can find the groups shot with that rifle and post the load info. Man, I should'a stopped when I started. But, I'm an engineer, I can't help myself. Hello, my name's Dan, I'm an engineer. I'm a charter member of EA, Engineers Anonymous.

[kevinbear]

The high arc and longer time of flight of a heavy 7mm bullet fired from a 7br at rams presents 2 problems not present in the 7-08 and especially the fast 6.5's, they are much more susceptible to wind, slight variations in speed result in big changes in elevation. Keep in mind I own a 7br and like it but am aware of it's limitations.
Kevin

[DanDeMan]

The high arc and longer time of flight of a heavy 7mm bullet fired from a 7br at rams presents 2 problems not present in the 7-08 and especially the fast 6.5's, they are much more susceptible to wind, slight variations in speed result in big changes in elevation. Keep in mind I own a 7br and like it but am aware of it's limitations.
Kevin

Kevin,

What you've posted about are not more than old wives'/husbands' tales, utter balderdash. I have proven, though actual testing and computer simulations that the time-of-flight and trajectory angle concerns are bogus. What do you think the trajectory angle is, at the ram line, for the below described 7mm load? Care to guess? And, wind deflection concerns are also bogus. Remember, bullet selection is critical. If you shoot 168 SMK's in your 7BR, then you deserve all the crappy exterior and terminal ballistics (ram knockdown) you get. A 177-gr Carturucio launched from an 8-twist, 7BR barrel at 2,400 fps will be less affected by the wind and deliver more ram knockdown power than anything most of us would care to pull the trigger on. Ballistic efficiency (more ram-ass-kicking for the recoil suffered), terminal momentum and bullet toughness are the keys to building a winning ram load.

The 177-gr, 7mm Carturucio launched at 2,400 fps is still going 1,785 fps at the ram line. It deflects 3.4 MOA in a 10 mph, 9 0'clock wind. A 139-gr, 6.5mm Scenar launched to 2,750 fps is going 1,953 fps at the ram line and is deflected 3.4 moa in a 10 mph, 9 o'clock wind, the same as the 177-gr Cauterucio. But, the 7mm bullet will knock the rams silly with less recoil than the 6.5mm bullet. Terminal momentum for the two rounds are:

177 C : 177/(7000 x 32) x 1,785 = 1.41 lb-ft/sec
139 Scenar: 139/(7000 x 32) 1,953 = 1.21 lb-ft/sec

As we can see from the above calculations, the 7mm bullet delivers 16% more terminal momentum while being just as affected by the wind as the higher MV, 6.5mm bullet. Also, the recoil of the 7mm bullet will be less. And, the dwell time of the 7mm bullet will be much longer, further enhancing ram knockdown. From years of experience I can say that the 7mm bullet will knock rams off the rail with "authority," while the 6.5mm bullet will knock them over also, but with less "authority."

[kevinbear]

You keep alluding to the magical bullets from some unknown maker, are these available to us mortals? Most of us here on earth are forced to use crappy bullets that come in green or red boxes, does this discussion have any revelance to us?

[DanDeMan]

You keep alluding to the magical bullets from some unknown maker, are these available to us mortals? Most of us here on earth are forced to use crappy bullets that come in green or red boxes, does this discussion have any revelance to us?

If you don't want to purchase Bob Carturucio's bullets, that's fine. JLK also makes some mean 180-gr, 7mm bullets. The 180-gr, 7mm Berger's also work, but are a bit softer. Bob is not an unknown bullet maker. I've been purchasing bullets from him for over 17 years as well as many shooters from around the world. This discussion is as relevant as the openness of ones mind. If you're too lazy to find out how to contact Bob, that's your problem, not mine. Mr Google can be a big help.

[kevinbear]

Neither google or msn has anything on "Bob Carturucio's bullets" or Midway or graf and sons, this guy live down the street from you?

[DanDeMan]

Kevin,

I just Googled Bob Cauterucio. There are plenty of links that have his address and phone number. Try checking this out.

http://www.google.com/search?q=Bob+Cart ... =firefox-a

[Trent]

Cauterucio bullets are very popular amongst a lot of f-class competitors and I've seen them mentioned (and adored) on the long range precision matches (600yd, 1,000yd and beyond). From what I understand he relies on word of mouth for his business. He has been in business for a LONG time. Must be doing something right.