WHO HERE SHOOTS A 10/22 FOR SMALLBORE SILHOUETTE???

[JarHeadTim]

Hello everyone...

New to the site, first time post here.

I am a Highpower Service Rifle competitor and wish to try my hand at Smallbore Silhouette this year. I have a Volquartsen 10/22 built as a Silhouette style rifle and would appreciate any advice I can get from any of you who shoot a 10/22.

Now, I'm sure the major response will be "Buy a Bolt Rifle"...And my preference would be to shoot a Bolt Gun, but I can't make the investment right now, so I'm looking for friendly advice on the Ruger.

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[Jason]

I used a 10/22 when I first started shooting silhouette and it worked fine. I have trouble making myself follow through on shots and all of the moving metal in the 10/22 wasn't helping that anyway. As long as you make sure your brass doesn't interfere with a neighboring competitor, a well-built 10/22 should do the job just fine, especially if you are accustomed to competing in service rifle matches with an AR15 or Garand.

[JarHeadTim]

Jason,

What scope did / do you shoot? What do you find the typical magnification to be and do you adjust magnification on the different targets or do you shoot a fixed power...?

[Jason]

I started with a 6.5-20 that I had lying around, I think. From there I went to a 6-24X with better glass (Bushnell Elite 4200) on one rifle and a straight 24x Sightron on the other. The Elite was too heavy and the Sightron's glass wasn't nearly as good as the Elite, so I was still looking. I found the Weaver T24 that had glass as good as the Elite (comparing them side-by-side at the range), was a LOT lighter, and had two sets of nice targets knobs that came with it. I'm using two of those right now, and they are very good for silhouette. I do have one of the new Leupold 30X silhouette scopes with a 3/8 minute dot on order, but until I can put it through its paces and be sure of tracking, etc. I'll be relying on the Weaver T24s.

[Jerry G]

I made all the way to AAA with one. It is harder to shoot than a bolt rifle. All the mass moving next to your cheek upsets your follow through. You have to be very carefull what ammo you put through it if you are shooting hunter class with it. The trigger can be lightened to 2 lbs and smoothed out.

[JarHeadTim]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for the feedback.

I don't know that I've ever tired to steady 24x at 40 meters before, so my knee-jerk reaction is that it can't be easy. Is there no value to a variable powered scope so as to be able to reduce the magnification at the closer range and increase the magnification at the greater distance...or is Silhouette the same as Highpower, where the target "appears" the same size even though it is shot @ 200, 300 & 600 yds?

And from what I gather from the two you an "exaggerated steady hold / follow through" is in order with the semi-auto, is that correct...?

I would appreciate any other "Tips" anyone can give me.

[iceman]

You all need to look up Troy Lawton on the internet. He won the Smallbore Silhouette Championship with a 10/22 just to prove it could be done. Now before you go getting all upset, I know that he had a lot of work done to it, but it is still a 10/22. And most people shooting silhouette have modified rifles.

Iceman

[atomicbrh]

Tim, I think the variable is a good idea for a Highpower across the course Competitor who is starting Smallbore Silhouette but not for the reason you mentioned(Making the animal appear the same size at each distance to the eye). Hold area or wobble area is the best reason to start out with a variable. I predict if you start with a 6.5 to 20 or so variable that you will start out at around 10 Power and within 6 months or 3 to 4 real matchs, you will be shooting all the animals on 20 power. Your wobble will appear too large in the beginning and as your ability to hold smaller groups in the standing Silhouette position improves you will start upping the power. When my son was age 9, he shot his first match with a BSA scope of a magnification I cannot remember but then I switched him to an older 10 to 40 magnification Tasco. He shot his second Match at around 10 to 12 Power, third match 16 Power and and increased magnification on his own gradually until at the end of the fourth match(160 rounds in Competition, many more rounds in practice between those matchs) he was shooting every animal at 40 power. Like his, your hold will improve rapidly and you will want more power. After the Tasco we switched to a fixed power T36 Weaver because T24's were not in production at that time. Once the T24 was in production we bought those because we realized we did not really need that much magnification. With the small field of view that a T36 or 40 power scope has and if the animals are far apart you have a hard time aquiring the correct target especially chickens because you can only see one animal at a time. Do not ignore some of the cheaper Bushnell Air rifle scopes. We have had great success with some of the cheaper Bushnell air rifle scopes on Silhouette Air Pistols. The have to have features I would look for in a budget Silhouette scope are 1/4 MOA clicks, (crosshair or dot)anything but a busy MilDot type Reticle, resettable to zero target turret type windage and elevation knobs, and Adjustable Parallax closer than 40 meters. On the resettable to zero knobs I do not like the small side bite screws. I like something substantial that goes on the end of the knob to hold the knob on. BKL mounts and rings are the best for someone on a budget or not on a budget. They just work. When you are able to afford it buy the best optics available. The Weaver and Leupold's literature promises better, more repeatable tracking and that is why they cost more. Why shoot a fixed power once you have some experience? Well, this is the subject no one wants to talk about and the subject is timing. Hitting a Silhouette target is the same as hitting a major league fast ball with a bat, timing your swing perfectly. We are all moving the rifle constantly. Even the best shooters cannot hold the rifle perfectly motionless. With a fixed power, the shooter can have consistent timing. As the dot or crosshair moves in or out of the animal the shooter "learns" where to break the shot to place the bullet where it should be. You will hear the term "drivebys" at matchs and most people say this term when they have a large wobble and make a hit as they are experiencing a large wobble through the target. "Driveby" is a common term I have heard at 3P Indoor Air rifle Matchs also. Variable Magnification will introduce another variable factor into the experienced shooter's timing but I think the variable power is a good choice for someone just starting this great sport.

Hope this rambling reply helps.
Bobby R. Huddleston

[JarHeadTim]

Bobby,

Thank you much for the time it took to type that post...I really appreciate it. My reason for asking about the variable wasn't so that the targets "Could" all appear the same size, it was for the reason you stated...I won't be able to hold it steady and felt as thought it would make the closer targets harder to pick out initially, so thank you, you confirmed my suspicions.

One question I do have, is are all the targets sized for their distances so that they all appear the same relative size. For example, in Highpower the bullseye on the target we shoot is 6 M.O.A. which equates to 12" @ 200 yards, 18" @ 300 yards and 36" @ 600 yards, therefore the Bullseye appears the same size when looking through the sights at all distances.

Is this the case as well in Silhouette?

[Jason]

Yes, the targets all look relatively the same size because they get bigger as they get farther away. The shapes of the target make a pretty big difference in how easy they are to hit, though.

[atomicbrh]

Tim, others who have analyzed the targets using some engineering formulas can probably answer this better than I can but yes according to everything I have read the targets are supposed to be scaled to distance so they all have the same target surface area. Theoretically the pig is supposed to be as easy to hit as the turkey but we know from recorded average scores that this is not true. The turkey is the most difficult target to hit. The turkey is the animal that AAA and Master shooters use for shootoffs. Silhouette is a mind game and a game of deception. The shapes of the targets make it difficult for the beginning shooter to know where the center of the target really is. Take the Turkey for example. The slender pointed tail makes the eye track toward the tail and away from the true center of the target. The slender tail and long, narrow head and neck also decreases the usable, easy to hit surface area of the turkey and increases the margin of error. All of the targets even the chicken whether by design or chance are deceptive due to their shape and have areas that are included in their surface area measurements but decrease usable, practical, body "hit" areas. The fixed Weaver 24 power I am using does make the turkey and ram appear smaller in surface area to my eye than the chicken's surface area but I know according to other posts here that this cannot be true. Now about this time, one of the Master class shooters should post a reply that says we are thinking too much and that we should forget all this tinkering scientist stuff, become the athlete, do not think about anything, just get up there on that firing line and hit that target.

Bobby R. Huddleston

[lone ringer]

You said it Bobby why make it more complicated than it is put the dot in the Target and pull the trigger at the same time, no thinking involved

[Jason]

To continue the scientific stuff, even though the targets have the same apparent area scaled for distance, it's the distribution of the target area that makes the difference in hits and misses on different targets. I call it the "blob factor" but I'm sure there's a more technical term for it. The pig is the most likely to be hit because it uses most of its area in one large area, wasting very little with appendages, so the probability of a hit given a certain margin of error (POI relative to POA) is greater. The ram is next to the top in "blob factor" but isn't necessarily next easiest to hit because the wind can play havoc with a little 22lr bullet before it makes it all the way out to rams and it's common for accuracy to drop off rapidly at that distance, especially with cheaper ammo. For these reasons, I think chickens are slightly easier to hit for me overall. Turkeys are hardest because they have their area spread out into a more elongated shape and you have the wind and ammo accuracy issues to deal with. So, after all that, even though they are supposedly all the same apparent area, they do vary slightly in their difficulty to score hits. For me, I rank them in easiest to hardest order as pigs, chickens, rams, turkeys.

[JarHeadTim]

Got it...

What's your best advice to a rookie SB Sil shooter other than practice (Which believe me I already know...I have spent hundreds of hours baking in the sun for Highpower)...?

[lone ringer]

The best advice that I can offer you if you have not shot off-hand with a scope much is to not start with too much power on your scope because your movement will be magnified times the power of your scope and a lot of shooters that have shot with iron sights all their life have trouble adjusting to the now more visible movement.

Be patient taking your shots, disregard the clock because its more important to get two or three good shots off than to miss the targets five times.

Train instead of practice, meaning have awareness on what you are doing instead of just burning ammo.

Go to a lot of matches

And most important HAVE FUN DOING IT