Something interesting to share with you guys

Evelio Mc Donald · Post by **Evelio Mc Donald** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:06 pm

Last year I build two guns for Kitty, the first one was on a 54.18 with a Lilja tight bore straight taper barrel, the second one was on a 1710 with again a Lilja tight bore barrel, but this one was FLUTED, and I shot a 5 shot group with this rifle at the rams that you could cover with a dime, in the few months after that, I could not get any gun to duplicate that type of accuracy. I have not spoken to John in the last few months, but I am pretty sure that the 1712 will outshoot the 54.18 to this day.
Now to get back to the point. I build 5 rifles in the last two months all on 54.18 actions, Parr stocks, and Lilja 53 rf. tight bore barrels, two had the straight taper, and 3 had the fluted barrels. The straight taper barrels will shoot 1 min. of angle at the rams, the FLUTED barrels will shoot 5 shot groups at rams with all shots touching each other. I just did that today with a rifle going to some lucky guy in New York, I had 2 master shooters next to me that witness the groups. I was testing 3 rifles, two straight tapers, and one fluted, the fluted one outshot the other two.
I talked to Lilja about this situation, and the only explanation they had is that when you flut the barrels it will relieve most, of the stresses from rifling, and turning the O.D.
I just thought I share this results with you guys. Myself, I really don't have a good explanation on what really makes the difference in accuracy.
Maybe somebody out there had the same results.
I will be very interested in your opinions.
Evelio.
P/S next one going for testing is another plain barrel.

jneihouse · Post by **jneihouse** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 8:49 pm

To follow Evilio's post, I have got the 54:18 to "just about" shoot with the 1710 fluted barrel by playing with the torque setting on the action screws. 54:18 has the un fluted barrel and the 1710 has the fluted barrel. However, the fluted barrel gun, after extensive bench testing, is less likely to produce uncalled fliers and is not nearly so sensative to a dirty barrel. And it could care less what the torque settings are on the action screws. Both guns are scary accurate. I would give the nod to the 54:18 over the 1710 due to the trigger as far as being easy to manage. I'm tempted to let Evelio re-barrel the 54:18 with a fluted barrel (yeah, I know accountants make too much money and we commit sacrilidges with our guns, so shoot me) But there seems to be a trend developing here. I would most likely never have noticed it except I have two very similiar guns with the only difference being the barrels. Anyone else out there have similiar experiences?

Kitty

genphideaux · Post by **genphideaux** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 9:14 pm

John,

Why rebarrel the 54.18, just get another built, that seems like what I keep doing LMAO

jneihouse · Post by **jneihouse** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 10:47 pm

If I can find a donor action I may do that....Or just by a barreled action....Someone has to keep this sport afloat.....Don't you love conspicious consumption???

Evelio's fixing to start on my hi power gun...As soon as I find a donor 700 Rem......

I think you and I just like new toys....I really liked the pic someone posted of a an Anschutz Fortner action in a Pharr stock...It was a lefty..Sure is tempting. I know where there's a Fortner right hand gun up here (strange, but bi-athalon is not real big in the south), but don't know if it's for sale.....

Kitty

Varn · Post by **Varn** » Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:02 pm

John and Evelio,
Was the barrel fluted before or after it was lapped? If it was after, why not just remove the barrel from the 54:18 and flute it? I've had them fluted both ways and couldn't detect a difference. I know that two barrels is not a large enough sample to draw a relevant conclusion with but just a thought.
Mark Varner

CWS · Post by **CWS** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:36 am

To continue along the logic limb that Varn started... since these are round actions it probably would not be necessary to remove the barrel. My latest project gun has been installing a Lilja #7 contour (read: Mongo) on an elderly 54 action. Shoots sub-minute... but so do a lot of the others. What do I have to lose... right?

jneihouse · Post by **jneihouse** » Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:00 pm

I think that the barrels are lapped last, but Evelio could tell you for sure. Admittadly my experiment with my two guns is not scientific by any means, but Evelio seems to be discovering an interesting trend.

Before the rebarreling and restocking I had the 1710 in a McMillian stock. From new it has been a very consistant and forgiving gun to shoot. The 54:18 was always a little more tempermental and unforgiving A friend's 1710, still in its wood stock is very tempermental and unforgiving and always has been. From time to time it will go completely south in a match. I guess all these guns have a personality.....

Kitty

Evelio Mc Donald · Post by **Evelio Mc Donald** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:48 pm

I am going to assume that they are hand lap, after they are completely machine, ( they won't say ) I don't know of any other barrel maker, that will flute their barrels, I know that Shilen won't.
I have fluted several high power barrels myself, and they turned out to be very accurate, never done a 22 lr barrel. If the barrel is well supported, and kept cool during the machining process, it should not affect the metalurgy of the steel.
I do know that Lilja will only flute Stainless barrels, they will not do Chrome moly barrels ?????
Evelio.

carl425 · Post by **carl425** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:15 pm

Krieger barrels are available fluted. Here's something they told me that you may find interesting. They said that fluting creates stress in a barrel that can have a negative effect on accuracy. The Bullberry guys (they make Contender/Encore barrels) told me the same thing. They will not flute their barrels. The way Krieger avoids this problem is to flute the barrel BEFORE it is bored.

Disclaimer: I know nothing. I'm merely repeating what I've been told.

Evelio Mc Donald · Post by **Evelio Mc Donald** » Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:41 pm

Carl 425
I used a few Krieger barrels in the past, all H.P. they all shot very well, non fluted. I really don't know the exact time process on when are the barrels fluted, I think those that do the fluting, have different ways of doing it.
The point that I have been trying to make is that so far as Lilja barrels in 22lr is concern, the fluted ones have outshot the plain barrels.
I don't have any answers as of why that is. The straight taper barrels, shot outstanding, up untill I tested a few of the fluted ones, and compared the groups.
This is why I am asking other shooters out there, if they have experienced the same results.
Evelio.

Something interesting to share with you guys

Something interesting to share with you guys

FLUTED BARRELS

FLUTED BARRELS