newbie wash outs

[Bob259]

Another idea we tied to keep the interest going was a ping pong ball shoot at 100M, strung the PP ball on a fine wire hung from a piece of reinforcing rod bent at a 90 degree angle at the 100M line. 2 shots for a buck and the one that hit it split the pot with the club. Interesting thing was everyone thought it was to hard, but it never went much over two weeks with out someone hitting it and taking the pot.

[silhouette13]

well...this turned out a pretty good think tank of a thread. i have gotten lots of good dope on the state of the sport.it has also had me dig deeper into my opinions(something i hope everybody does)

if clinical hind sight it is only 2-3 guys who are positive to the point of being negitive in my greater area. not a lot but if we have 20-30 shooters then it is 10%

i think what i will do to combat this cancer is to be vigilant and help the new guys wipe away that experiance if i think they have it and just be as good an amabasador as i can.

cheers all, it has been a treat

[TOP PREDATOR]

for my matches i usually have the the first timers shoot for free, and stress that it is addictive, fun, and that it is tougher than one might think and not to get discouraged by a low score or looking at the rifle that "Ferrari" made next to them. i also like to stress that with the different classifications of shooters that they are basically shooting against shooters in the same skill level, that it would help if they got their "dope" at the different ranges first so when they show up they at least have their equipment dialed in.

i usually suggest starting with the hunter class. with a few exceptions, i simply stress that "it's basically a get your grandpas squirrel gun, 80 rounds, and shoot". if they are hunters, i like to tell them that it is great practice for hunting, i know i owe at least 1 grouse and a few pounds of squirrels to shooting silhouette.

sure equipment has its advantages, but if one can't shoot in the first place, equipment don't mean much. luckily i'm blessed with a good group of guys that don't discourage but promotes using what someone has to it's fullest potential.

we got alot of new and returning shooters last year and this year is looking even better, and i attribute alot of that to the "non-pompus" shooters we have.

[Kevin6q]

The clubs in NH where I've participated have been great and encouraging to novices. I've been attending for years with a rifle that doesn't fit into any class and they take my $5 and allow me to shoot. My scores don't count but I appreciate being able to shoot. I post my start number in whatever class has the shortest wait and go shoot. My kids (6 and 9) have attended matches and shot off a rest with some club member helping them along. The kids have a great time. One thing they find frustrating is the time it takes to go through a match. Anywhere from 45minutes to an hour to break 40 rounds is pretty slow and not too engaging. I also find the slow pace of a match frustrating. We ended up purchasing a full set of 1/5 targets and just shoot them at the local range or at home. Since I don't care about the NRA book, attending matches has no purpose other than visiting with other shooters which I enjoy. When you are new there are few people to visit with and catch up while waiting for a time on the line. If you don't know what a great performance is or don't understand a lot of what's happening a match can be pretty boring.

[RBriscoe]

It would be interesting to hear from some of the clubs which have prosperous programs, such as those in Pennsylvania, Washington or Arizona. What are you doing to publicize the club and/or matches and whatever else.

I know climatic conditions, heat, cold, wind and so on, can have an adverse effect upon the shooters' motivation, but it would be great to hear from the programs that are doing comparatively well.

Rick

[Bob259]

I also expect to see the rising gas prices as another problem for shooters and match directors this year, especially with what they are predicting for gas prices to go up to. Unless someone is close by, traveling and attendence maybe reduced quite a bit do to the prices.

[lone ringer]

One thing they find frustrating is the time it takes to go through a match. Anywhere from 45minutes to an hour to break 40 rounds is pretty slow and not too engaging. I also find the slow pace of a match frustrating. We ended up purchasing a full set of 1/5 targets and just shoot them at the local range or at home. Since I don't care about the NRA book, attending matches has no purpose other than visiting with other shooters which I enjoy. When you are new there are few people to visit with and catch up while waiting for a time on the line. If you don't know what a great performance is or don't understand a lot of what's happening a match can be pretty boring.

45 minutes to one hour to shoot a 40 round match is very fast by any standard. If you went to a large match like the Nationals with at least 5 relays you would be shooting 10 rounds per hour, so if you shoot both 40 round matches you would be on the line shooting for a grand total of 22 minutes and waiting around for seven to eight hours.
There is a local match I attend where we shoot 5 different matches all at the same time (three cowboy and 2 smallbore) they do not have relays per say its a combination of re entry where people start on one target and shoot through till they are done with that match and then they move to another match if they wish to do so. Its a lot easier for us to do it that way than shooting on three different relays and have the guys running from one position to another shooting with three different rifles.
The matches go pretty quick that way if we do not have a lot of shooters, we try to spread out and have a couple of shooters on every set of 40 targets and that way we only need to reset after every 20 shots (we have banks of 10). If shooters are ambitious and do not waste time between matches they can shoot three matches but most shooters only shoot two. Silhouette pistol matches I have attended do it that way and seems to work well for them specially since they have target setters and the shooters do not have to leave their position on the firing line to reset targets. Our rifle matches are smaller and we do not have the benefit of target setters so we have to reset them ourselves after shooting knocking them down. Works fine for us specially if we have more than one relay so that we have more time to recover from having to go down range and reset high power and LA cowboy targets.

[cslcAl]

It would be interesting to hear from some of the clubs which have prosperous programs, such as those in Pennsylvania, Washington or Arizona. What are you doing to publicize the club and/or matches and whatever else.

I have been involved in running matches at Consolidated Sportsmen of Lycoming Co. in central Pa. since the early 80's. We have always had pretty good attendance at our matches; but we are in a good geographic location in the middle of the state. We are with in two and one half hours of a lot of shooters. Back in the late 80's and early 90's it was normal for us to have 60 to 70 shooters at a HP match. There was a time when we shot SB rifle on a Tuesday night and would pull 40 shooters. Now we are lucky to get 25 fo HP and about the same for SB at our Sunday match. The times have changed and it all boils down to money. It costs at least four times to get equiptment and ammo. The other thing is especially with HP is it is a difficult sport to master.
Our Cowboy programs are doing real well; 18- 24 for a CLA match on a Saturday. We shoot every Tuesday night MAy thru August and alternate between CLA one week and SCR and PCLA the next. WE shoot on two different ranges so alternating is necessary. The Tuesday night CLA matches will pull 8-12 shooters; but the SCR and PCLA weeks will draw 15 to 20 shooters. More people shoot .22's.
WE have done different things over the years to attract new shooters. We have had clinics and open houses, and various gimics that got shooters money back during the matches. WE also utilize the local newspapers and the Pa Rifle and Pistol Assoc's web-site and newsletter.We also have our own web-site.I get more requests for info via the internet than anything else. But, the best way to get new shooters is word of mouth. If we ALL don't do something to bring new shooters into the sport it surely will die.
The other thing that is really important is you have to run a good match. If you don't have enough help this is tough. I started to list a bunch of stuff here; but it just boils down to how you treat people. If you treat people the way you would like to be treated they will come back and most likely bring someonw with them.
One other thing that a lot of shooters don't stop to think about, is that there are two distinct types of shooters. There are the die hard competitors who are going to put a lot into their progress. They will attend a lot of club maches and go to the state,regional , and national matches. Then there are the casual shooters who will not travel and will just shoot the club matches just for fun. To have a good program you need both types of shooters and you have to treat them as equals. If you just cater to one faction you will lose the other.

Al

[Dee]

At the match we use rail set targets we usually have a flow match where one group shoots all 40 animals before the next relay. This way we take turns resetting so those shooting do not have to go down range and get all worked up before coming back to shoot. Works out really well and the match moves well. With the resettable targets we also use at another match we only go down range to paint between 40 shot flow relays. Here is South Louisiana not having to go reset in June, July, August and Sept. is a plus.

We have tossed around the idea of perhaps a little $ to make things interesting. Something like bowling with a handicap average so all the classes could be competitive. Otherwise we would be donating all our money to Tureau and Jeaux too these days! Do something like 10 previous running score average and have it handicapped to allow whoever shoots above their average to win.

Dee

[TXCharlie]

Something new is usually a motivation for shooters; I have suggested side matches as the "something new" aspect for silhouette matches. Speed, accuracy, friendly bets...shooting something different instead of the same 'ol thing each match. Host the silhouette match then shoot a side match, change the side matches format each event. Those that want to shoot more can “belly up to the bar” and blast away, after the silhouette match.

[TOP PREDATOR]

i ran this side match last year, and hope to do it agian mid and closing of this year's season. i figure there is at least some $ that goes to the top three, plus a trophy, plus a voucher good for a free regular silhouette match.. i hope this year to get a brick of ammo from the local gun store to add to the pot, and maybe a tee shirt. in rule #1 " Anyone that shot in a smallbore silhouette match in 2011 will be able to participate in the match". if figure that someone will have to attend a regular match to get "qualified", then probably show up to shoot the regular match the day of the "side match", and with the voucher for a free regular match, they would probaably show up for the third. if they are not hooked by then, then it's probably not their sport.


MID & CLOSING SEASON “PIRKEY” CHALLENGE

1. In 2010, entry fee was $10.00, yet to be determined for 2011– but will be advertised the month before- Anyone that shot in a smallbore silhouette match in 2011 will be able to participate in the match.
2. Course of fire will be a quick 10 targets – 5 turkeys at turkey distance, turkey station, and 5 pigs at the ram distance, ram station.
3. Highest amount of hits wins. In the event of a tie, a shoot off will be the best of 5 turkeys at the turkey station.
4. All shooting will be done off hand, with qualifying NRA smallbore silhouette equipment.
5. There will be 2 divisions - Standard rifle and Hunting rifle. All individual shooter classifications will not be recognized, only classed by the type of rifle you shoot.
6. All entry fees will be split respectively for the amount of entries per division, to have a separate Standard and Hunting rifle division purse.

First place of division - 50% of total purse collected for the division.
Second place of division – 30% of remaining purse.
Third place of division – remainder of purse.

[trkyroost]

what is the web address for Consolidated Sportsmen of Lycoming Co. I am not real close but may be worth the drive thanks

[Bob259]

what is the web address for Consolidated Sportsmen of Lycoming Co. I am not real close but may be worth the drive thanks

Here you go... http://www.consolidatedsportsmen.org/

[durant7]

I have had the honor to be introduced to MS in Texas. Yup, they were kind enough to tollerate a damn Yankee. Thanks to Nomad and Don S., TxCharlie, Fenton and many others, they set the hook REAL DEEP! I see that my hook may have even nailed Handsome Dave (sil13) and Kevin. But NH is kinda on the bubble. Economic times, fixed incomes have IMO strained the long time shooters and there is a dirth of young blood. I have busted my backside to get more shooters through loaned equipment, coaching, email newsletter re basics, loaner youth equipment. ETC ETC. We too shoot 1/2 and 1/5th at the same time. Club rifle right next to the real deal. Kids use any form of support. One brilliant solution was threading a forearm for a tripod screw. PERFECT for young shooters of any size!

But the results have been less than rewarding. I find I am spending more time running/supporting a match and less time shooting which after all is what I think we would all really love to be doing. But I figure it is my roll to give back as others gave up much to get me going. But I am about spent on the effort and am happy to see the OP stepping up to the plate.

NH matches run all day. You show up whenever you want and get a number and start on chickens when your number is called. Go through as many times as you want. 1/5, 1/2 "thin" and 1/2 "thick" for SB and PC cowboy. An even slicker club program. Novice club shooters shoot at "thin" and expert club shooters shoot at "thick" to keep it interesting. Those "thick" rams have to be hit in the right place! $7 to $8 per round. Newbies shoot for free. Kids...minimal fee if any. All three clubs run the same club rules and scores are put in the back of the book's extra pages by each club. Shoot a certain level and you move to expert. Not a current year book owner (kids) use up last year's books and write on 2011. What is not to like about that?????

Well, I have a few thoughts. With the non stop revolving match there is less shooter to shooter interaction except when you are off the line chewing the fat. No one has spotters and IMO you MUST have a spotter (coach) when you embark on the 1/5th game. Few people learn the importance of calling your shot in a club match. They need a coach to take it to the next level. W/o one, it is far too easy to give up and return to club and get 34 and forget hitting only 14! I also miss the shooter partner componant of the game. I could also suggest that Buddy shows because he knows Johny is going to be there and they like to shoot together and neither wants to let the other down. Squadded matches benefit from loyalty to the fellow shooter.

To solve this I scheduled and ran some 1/5th only matches, squaded. 5 to 6 people showed for 5 approved matches. A lot of work for 5 guys. Shooters liked it. We had a coonass shoot at teh end aka side match. But after all the effort it is not clear it grew participation. So, we plod along. I have come to the conclusion it has to come from within. Keep the ideas coming! And say thanks to your local match director. These are the guys who are the under appreciated folks and without them, the sport is truly at risk. HELP THEM OUT!

Jud

[remmy511]

ii dont want to come off as a prat, it just makes me bummed that i have a hard time getting people who say they had a great time and it was fun to come back over some thing like sticker shock.
dave[/quote]

Hi Dave,
I'm a newb that came to this site, got invited to attend the Pe Ell match online, was contacted by two shooters and meet one at the match, that took time to show me the ropes and let me shoot his CZ (in which I missed all 5 shots). I had brought my 1940's rem 511 with peeps. I did hit some with my 511.
I was allowed to jump in on available open lanes to try...nice.
I've shot NRA bullseye, 3 gun handgun. So I'm familiar with the range environment and the characters that inhabit.
Everyone has made great points and I'd like to give some as well. Applying recruitment methods I've seen in Road racing, Sailboat racing and untold numbers of competitive hobbies and sports I've done, can be used here I think.
1.Sticker shock can be lessened if there is a more formal route to entry through the hunter class...and down play the standard class. Let their interest take them there on their own. Your number one job would be to get new shooters into Hunter with what they have or a club package (see #4.)
2.Person or persons in each club should formally be asked to be the "welcome group" This committee would orientate new people on the game straight through to the equipment and help register and join the club even joining the NRA if needed. During a match is not the best time.
3. Each club should formalize a time, once a month in the winter and twice a month in spring and summer for a new member match and orientation. Have Masters and AAA shooters conduct it. Lunch afterward would help too.
4.Every club has a smith or two, get a low cost package together: CZ with a low power scope, most won’t be able to hold on a target with higher power anyway (I couldn’t).
5. Every club needs a monthly e-newsletter and needs to religiously create it and send it out to their list.
6. More pictures of matches and the guns need to be on every club site. That’s what newb’s want to see, most show a clubhouse and some scenic mountains and their schedule, nothing to get them interested.
7. Just as you said, tell the gear-heads to settle down and remember they were once a newbie at one time.

I’m looking forward to shooting with all of you soon.
Byron Tucker