Hit/Miss Question

[jhmartin]

Two instances I am unclear of now ... I have an opinion, but I'd like the scoop
Sorry if you all have answered these thousands of times already

Situation 1: Shooter knocks target 2 (hit) into target 3 .... what do you do?
Me, I'd have the shooter continue on to 4 and then if necessary shoot at a swinger .....

Situation 2: Shooter is set to shoot #2 but knocks off three.
Miss on 2 only, or miss on both 2 & 3?

[shakes]

Situation one: move on to number four and five, then go to the swinger or the first available animal to make up for number three.

situation two: miss on both two and three.

[stsbuyer]

Shakes,

Long time ago you would be right, but the current rule state you lose only one target.

14.3 How to Score - All shots are scored by marking either an "0" for a miss, or an "X" for a hit in the correct spaces
on the scorecard. The scorecard is marked in the same order as the targets are fired, i.e., beginning in the first
space on the left and progressing to the right until the stage is complete. Hits out of sequence are scored as
misses; for example, the second shot hitting the third silhouette is a miss. (See Rule 10.7(b). All spaces on the
scorecard must be filled in either with an "0" or an "X" as appropriate. Each shooter is responsible for checking
with the scorekeeper immediately after firing the 5 rounds to be sure that credit has been given for the correct
number of hits. There will be no appeal if the silhouettes have been returned to the stands.
14.3.1 Scorer's Duties - The scorer will be positioned behind the competitor where both the competitor and the bank
of targets can be observed. The scorekeeper will record the value of each shot before the next shot is fired. It is
the scorekeeper's responsibility to see that the competitor observes the Rules and time limits, fires no more than
five rounds per series and when strong wind is a factor, to watch silhouettes closely so that it can be determined
when a silhouette is blown over and not knocked down by a bullet.
14.4 Misses - Any shot which does not knock the proper silhouette over or from its stand will be scored a miss.
"Turning" a silhouette on its stand will be counted as a miss. Any target that is hit, causing one or both feet to be
moved off the stand or pad, and make contact with another supporting surface, but still remain upright, shall be
scored as a hit. If, through the fault of the competitor, fewer than the prescribed number of shots are fired, or
shots are fired on the wrong target, the competitor is scored a miss for each unfired shot or each shot fired on a
wrong target.
14.5 Early or Late Shots - A competitor firing a shot from the line before "Ready" (Listo) is given will be disqualified
from the day's scheduled match. Any shots, including sighting shots (Black Powder Cartridge Rifle), fired between
the "Ready" (Listo) and "Fire" (Fuego) commands will be scored as a miss. Shots fired upon closing of the bolt or
action when on the firing line will be scored as record shots. Any shot fired after the command "Cease Fire" (Alto)
will be scored as a miss.
14.6 All Shots Count - All shots fired by a competitor after taking position at the firing point will be counted in the
competitor's score even if the rifle may be accidently discharged.
14.6.1 Discharge of Propellent - Any release of the propelling charge without the pellet hitting the target, whether
a pellet has been loaded or not, will be scored as a miss.
14.7 Hits on Wrong Target - Hits on the wrong target are scored as misses.
14.8 Ricochets - Ricochet hits fired in sequence at properly designated targets count as hits.
14.9 - 14.11 - Blank
14.12 Insufficient Hits - If, through the competitor's fault, fewer than the required number of shots are fired, that
competitor shall be scored a miss for each unfired shot.

[jhmartin]

OK .... I'm OK on situation #1 ....

The biggie is #2 ... I was pretty vocal this past weekend (NM 4-H state match) where the director stated as per Shakes, but I argued as did stsbuyer.
If I was runnin' the match I'd go only 1 miss (on #2) and continue on as in #1.

After the match I got out th rulebook, but am still unclear ... I'm willing to admit that and would like to know or even see any response that the NRA committe has sent out to be able to better inform my shooters

[Jason]

As the rule above states, only shots fired are scored as a hit or a miss, with the exception of the shooter running out of time before firing five shots. If the second shot knocks down the third target, then the second shot is scored as a miss. Since the third shot has not yet been fired, it can not be scored as a miss due to the second shot. It's plainly stated in that rule. For the third shot, the shooter should proceed to the next available animal, which would be in the fourth position. For the fourth shot, the shooter should shoot at the animal in the fifth position. For the fifth shot, the shooter should return to the first available animal in that bank, of which there is virtually guaranteed to be one since the second animal was missed. Shooting an animal out of sequence is handled just like another shooter crossfiring and knocking down another competitor's target. Just proceed through remaining targets in sequence and return to the beginning of the bank, or another available target that the shooter and scorer mutually agree upon before firing. Hitting an incorrect animal is scored as a miss for the shooter, whether it's one of his own animals or one of someone else's, with no further penalties except for some ribbing from other competitors.

I'm a bit surprised at any disagreement or differences in experience here. I've seen this happen probably 20+ times in the three years or so that I've been shooting silhouette and it's never been handled as both being counted as misses because one shot hit another target. Hmm..

[ppkny]

Jason, Very well stated. I'm keeping a copy of your explanation tucked in the rule book.
ppkny

[jhmartin]

Jason .... again thank you ..... this was my arguement as well.

Sometimes in 4-H competitions local "tradition" comes into play as it did here.
I'll forward it on to the state folks to distribute and hopefully we won't hve the issue next year

Joel

[rogersptl]

Greetings, I'm pleased to read a 4-H event using silhouette targets. The paper targets, timing, classes in the air rifle and smallbore are generally 'all 4-H rules'. The suggestion has been made that 'why not use an NRA or USA' system, but to date WY 4-H wants to do it 'there way'.

[jhmartin]

For the most part the NM state match tries to match the 4-H Nationals rules which try to match the NGB rules very closely.

Our Air Rifle 3-P event is a sanctioned match as well, and we may be able to get the match to "Cup" status next year.

[kevinpagano]

JH Martin, if you are shooting silhouette in New Mexico Please contact me. I am looking to get hooked up with shooters down there as I am moving down there soon. I know they shoot an informal match and Zia rifle range.

Kevin

[email protected]