Your Remington 700

[Bob259]

Let's introduce 'em to Kitty for proper indoctrination/corruption...

I second sending the Commander to Remington's main headquarters.

Also put me down for one of those special editions in a 260

[jneihouse]

I will gladly go in service to my fellow shooters.....Wonder how much bling I can talk Big Green into....

Kitty

[yankee]

Earlier in the summer I picked one of the CDL SF limited editions in 260 Rem. Sure was a nice looking rifle till you looked closer. At about the point where the black tip and stock join all the flutes had a glitch in them. Wider and deeper than the rest of the flutes for about 3/8 inch.
Took it out and shot it with all different powder , brass bullets and never got a group below 2 inches at 200. Most were 3 to 4 inches. Chamber didn't look right so I cast it and two of the lands extended to the case mouth.
The new trigger did adjust right down to 2 lbs, kind of wondering if it will last 5 or 10,000 rounds like the old ones..
Boxed it up and sent back to remington like I have done with so many of the other ones. Got it back a week ago with a note saying the ding or glitch in the fluting is within spec and something about a finish reaming.
I have not recast the chamber to see if any changes have been made. Kind of scared to because chamber was large anyway.
If you are thinking of one of these also consider the stock comb is almost 1/2 inch lower than the old BDL models and this has no monte carlo. I would call it a open sight stock on a rifle with no open sights. But understand I like to shoot with my head up straight.
It is kind of a shame to pay $900 or more and have it turn out to be less than expected. What happened to the days when you could buy a bdl varmint in 708 or 308 and go out and shoot 1 min groups.??
Should be able to get out of the house next week to give it another round and see how it shoots. Needless to say I don't look for anything exciting.

[BlauBear]

This just reinforces my dislike of barrel flutes, especially in production rifle. A bead blast finish will create additional cool surface and provide a good, uniform finish without any risk of something going horribly wrong in the process.

Re-cutting that chamber, if possible, seems like a very good idea.

It is hard to understand what went wrong at Remington, but it does seem like something has. When they can't get a .22 right (the 504), I don't know what to say.

One other thought on the "700 MS": There is virtue in a SS barrel, but is it really needed for the receiver? If carbon steel improves the odds of proper machining, though, I'm all for it. Build it in all high carbon, and when we do cook the barrel, replace it in stainless. Another shooter at a custom receiver shop laughed and observed that barrels are consumables anyway...

[yankee]

Just re cast chamber. No change still two lands running to case mouth.
Over the past 20 years I have probably sent 15 rifles back to remington. They have always corrected the problems. This could be the first of the last. Couple of gun shows coming up may try to peddle it or take the barrel off and put one of these others on it.

Barrel finishes, for what it is worth. At one time I had a 6.5 x243 in chrome moly, after 10 shots you could not hold the gun by the barrel ahead of the stock because the barrel was so hot. The next barrel was left rough just as it came from the maker. You could sand your finger nails on it. After 10 shots you could pick it up anywhere and carry it as long as you wanted. Rough cools better more surface.

I still have that barrel with 5200 rounds thru it and the lands look like these new stainless ones with 1200 rounds

[rich56]

No disrespect intended, Yankee, if you had to return that many Remingtons, why did you buy that many? Do these rifles have to be Remingtons? How about the Weatherby Vanguard Varmint if not in 308 then ask Them for 7mm-08 and 260. See http://www.snipercentral.com/vanguardvs.htm. I have a CDL LTD and agree with the opinions on the stock design but mine shot well right from the box.

[BlauBear]

Rich, I tried to stay with Remington in .22's from nostalgia and a desire to stay with a US manufacturer. I even braced myself to swallow the cost of a Custom Shop build, but they wouldn't do a silhouette rifle so after two years of struggling with a 504 for two years I gave up and got a 1712. It still makes me sad.

It's different with a high power because there's a selection of custom actions and then Savage has a credible looking stainless action, so I can get US made (granted, the Savage may be built in Canada) from many different vendors. While Weatherby has a great product, they source from all over the world, so they're always a second choice for me.

[rich56]

I understand and do agree that we should try to buy American but should not reward sub par performance or marketing blunders. I've had 4 New 700s, all good shooters, 2 needed bedding to bring out their best, a 600 Mohawk that was a freak, just bought a CMP 40X so I could sell my Sako Varmint. But still don't understand 15 lemons. I don't think Remington will listen to the small silhouette community or they would have put more effort into the 541T and the 504T-hb. I notice their lack of support for their cartridge (the 260). Lets make it simple. A 24"magnum contour, no flutes, stock styled like the older ADLs with a the little heavier forearm and higher monte carlo no black forearm tip, in 243, 260, 7mm-08 and 308 with the proper twist. I'm not holding my breath.

[BlauBear]

Nothing to argue with there, Rich. Don't reward failure, and Remington's 504 series was meant to hang on walls and look pretty, not actually survive competition.

[Jim Beckley]

I don't think that Remington has any ideas about building any kind of a silhouette rifle (what kind of a market would they have?), I haven't heard the word Remington and Silhouette together since Tubb was shooting. I think quite a few shooters started with a out of the box 700 Varmit in either .308 or 7-08, as did I and it was a newer laminate stock, that I had to cut off 2 inches of the barrel and hollow out the stock for it to make weight. Wayne Leek used to work for Remington when Dupont owned the Big Green, I'm told that he was the one who pushed the bean counters to offer the Varmit in a 7-08 for silhouette, and I'm told that he used to say that "How can you get paint guys to listen to anything about rifles?" Might be worse now!

[BlauBear]

I don't think that Remington has any ideas about building any kind of a silhouette rifle (what kind of a market would they have?), I haven't heard the word Remington and Silhouette together since Tubb was shooting. I think quite a few shooters started with a out of the box 700 Varmit in either .308 or 7-08, as did I and it was a newer laminate stock, that I had to cut off 2 inches of the barrel and hollow out the stock for it to make weight. Wayne Leek used to work for Remington when Dupont owned the Big Green, I'm told that he was the one who pushed the bean counters to offer the Varmit in a 7-08 for silhouette, and I'm told that he used to say that "How can you get paint guys to listen to anything about rifles?" Might be worse now!

Cerberus is an investment house house that likes to fix broken companies and sell or trade them at a profit. A properly built hunter class silhouette rifle would make a great hunting rifle and all Remington has to do is select the right components from inventory and build them correctly. Absolutely nothing new here. How many times have you been asked for gun advice? We have leverage. Sell us, sell more.

Besides, a functional, accurate, but not necessarily pretty rifle as a reverse snob appeal a lot of folks might buy into.

[yankee]

I have phoned remington and they are looking into the service I did not receive.
This thing with remington quality seems to go back to about 91 or 92. before that time I never sent anything back because they worked. Something changed in those years. The 541's went to pot along with the center fire line all about the same time.. Mostly little stuff like scope base holes not lined up with the receiver or end of muzzle. Chambers cut crooked with 2 or 3 of the lands running to where case mouth should be. DBM magazines that don't feed. Tool marks inside of the muzzle and now the flute glitch. I guess I keep going back to remington because they used to work and they would fix what was wrong with them. The actions are light and short and they fit a bunch of stocks and barrels I have and a lot of pieces and parts are interchangable. Some of these actions have 10 to 15000 rounds through them and everything still works.
Savage is the next choice. At one time they did chamber a few for the 260 and they shot great. With the revised rules letting any trigger in I am surprised there are not more of them on the line. The older triggers were a bit to work on but once you got it right it stayed for thousands of rounds.
Glad to see old Beckley is still kicking. I am ging to get out that way again.

[Jerry G]

Yankee, your story is jusk like my friends with his "fluted bbl sniper rifle". They had some mumble jumble about a burr in the bbl, they said they fixed it, sent it back wit a target they shot. It was 1.49 inches for a 5 shot group. They said it met spec. What kind if spec do they have for a $1,200 sniper rifle? I have heard more and more complaints about remington in the lasf 5 years. He bought a Sako in 308 that shoots 1/2 minute groups with factory ammo.

If anybody wants the rem. he will sell it to you for about $800.

[Jim Beckley]

I was in the Sportsman's Warehouse about a year and a half ago, looking at a Remington 700 CDL in 25-06, one of the clerks was changing the price tags on the rifles on the racks, the Rems went up 80.00 as quick as his hands were with the tags, even with my mind, a little slow math added up the price of the rifle 750.00, a scope 250.00, and another 150.00 to bed, adjust trigger and free float. It was settled, a barrel from Hart, a reamer from Manson, and a couple of bottles of Scotch for Jeffy to put it on and I had a old/different rifle for less than half the cost of a new one!

[BlauBear]

And doesn't it feel good to treat an old friend to a day at the spa?