I just decided to keep a handstop and single point loop belt as an accessory for
a Klinksy stock that holds my cz UL 452 with brno peep sights. First time using
a sling, and it felt comfortable and stable. Probably not legal in competition?

A friend likes a Hasty stock that has two points of contact, but the single point may
work rather well. I like the simplicity. I wish that I could post an image. Almost
takes away the need of a palm rest.

Here's the Klinksy being held without the aid of sling:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7239/6915 ... 4845_b.jpg

Anyone have experience with such a set up?
Anyone use a single contact sling on a 1712? Legal In competition?

I have heard that it is better to learn how to shoot offhand w/o a sling.

No slings or arificial support....

wphill, no slings are not legal in silhouette, and yes it is better to learn to shoot offhand without a sling. All the 3 and 4 P shooters do the offhand without slings, some use palmrests, (also illegal in silhouette), so shall we say silhouette is the bareback of shooting?

Innocent

Offhand Schuetzen has no stock or support configuration rules. Nobody uses a sling. You can use a tight strapped in high power style coat too, Except for a few cross over high power shooters no one uses one.

I think slings and tight coats restrict your NPA masking true alignment.

Boats

I went to my first match, only as an observer. A very casual club arrangement.
I scored for one of the shooters and then went down range to paint/reset
animals. This shooter only had a 3x9 scope, and the highest mag power of others was
20. While none of rifles were checked for weight or pull, "casual" match
etiquette did not include any supports, like a sling or coat. I asked about
a sling and got the funny/dirty look. Ironic that I started out with a very
traditional attitude, but along the way off hand shooting has proved so intimidating that
I have found myself looking for anything that can provide a little encouragement.
Baby steps are ok, but I would have to agree that it's better to stay away
from any crutch that would hinder skill development.

What strikes me as equally intimidating is confidence in equipment. If the range
is not marked at silhouette distances during regular range time, then is it not a problem in getting the elevation
calibrated? Most ranges just offer 25, 50, 100 yard etc distances.

The good news is that I can only get better...at least that's what I'm telling myself. I realize
that I am not a natural, and simply will have to get more practice time.

I always try to arrive early and check my scope settings from a bench rest/bags prior to the match start. The matches I attend have adequate time to do this and, so far, have had either target backer boards or spinner targets to allow you to check your settings. If you have not had your first match and have no idea where your approximate setting should be there are several threads in Smallbore Rifle here (mine included) that you can get a good idea of a starting point.

Be polite, ask your questions, smile at everybody and have a great time. You will get your answers and have fun doing it. Most people are going to be nice, friendly and very willing to help.

If you run into the rare grouchy/snobby s.o.b just ignore them and keep on keeping on.

What Merlin said... I have been shooting Silhouette for over 3 years now and haven't met a crab yet. Some people are naturaly stand offish but that is just human nature.

Most people start off the same, wIth out a clue. The first match I shot in I didn't know a soul there and have never seen a match either.
Tell the match director and they will try to pair you up with a "freindsly" knowledgable shooter to make your first outing as painless as possible. It's not a instant
gratification sport. It's VERY frustraiting for everyone but very rewarding when you do it right.

Good luck.

(trust me, if people can warm up to Merlin, they can warm up to anyone....)

wphill wrote:Ironic that I started out with a very
traditional attitude, but along the way off hand shooting has proved so intimidating that
I have found myself looking for anything that can provide a little encouragement.

What strikes me as equally intimidating is confidence in equipment. If the range
is not marked at silhouette distances during regular range time, then is it not a problem in getting the elevation
calibrated? Most ranges just offer 25, 50, 100 yard etc distances.

The good news is that I can only get better...at least that's what I'm telling myself. I realize
that I am not a natural, and simply will have to get more practice time.

wphill,

First, you should not find anything intimidating about silhouette shooting. Every shot you take at a silhouette target will be either a hit or a miss, and either is fine. No one but you cares whether you hit the target or miss it. No one is going to think less of you or make fun of you. There is nothing for you to be intimidated about. Hit or miss, you're at a gun range shooting a gun, that's a good place to be!

Another thing, and this was mentioned before, but pretty-much everyone was once in your shoes. When I first started I didn't know anything about the rules, the equipment, how to shoot freehand, anything. I literally asked thousands of questions and our local shooters patiently answered them and taught me tons of stuff.

Keep this in mind: Silhouette shooters don't necessarily want great silhouette shooters or high master shooters to come to the matches; we just want MORE shooters. We want more people to show up to the matches and participate and become friends and support our game. You don't have to be a great shooter to be a great asset to the game, and that is what we need.

So, go to the matches and ask questions and shoot and practice and keep showing up and keep having fun. If you want to ask questions here, ask anything you want. Never be intimidated or think that anyone else is any more deserving than you are to be at the match taking that shot. Just have fun, Keep practicing, keep shooting and you will keep getting better. Don't worry about whether you are a "natural" or not. It's not important to be a "natural" to be great at this game. The one common thing I see amongst all the best shooters is that they all have an intense passion for shooting silhouette, so they shoot as much as they can and they get really good. Every sport is full of people with natural ability who continually get their butts whipped by people who just like it more. This is a really fun game and an even better community of people we're glad to have you.

Dustin

Best way to practice is on paper, next match ask the MD if you can spray paint outlines of the 4 targets on scrap cardboard. Back home make up a set of stencils. Spray painted targets show misses; give you feedback on position and zeros. On Brown cardboard they replicate steel on dirt background, easy to switch from Black to White targets too.

Ranges with different distances shoot at whatever is available. Log your zeros and adjust to match distance on match day. Depending on rifle and ammo 100 yards is going to zero a point or two lower than 100 meters. 50 yards few points lower on 60 meter pigs etc. You will soon build a book of zeros for match distances and ranges. Point of impact at various distances is important. It’s going to be different range to range even in sanctioned matches. Knowing 50 yards is going to make it easier to zero at 40 meters for sanctioned matches

Boats

You don't 'meet' crabs, some people just get them.

Boats, Dustin...you guys are great and do embody the generous spirit found so of often on the gun range.
Questions..

If I was to secure one reference point on a scope...would it be 50 yards? That would be set at zero?

And, I assume that any time I tweak the mount or remove the scope, I would simply rezero at 50 and
all the notes on plus/- clicks remain the same.

I'm not yet a member where silhouette and offhand shooting is more the norm. (Secretive range, multiple stages in membership application...the more I hang out and participate on guest shoots, I feel more welcome. Last outing I seemed to get the green light. And, what Dustin says is spot on...offhand shooters want more offhand shooters.)

Meanwhile,at the other range where I can still shoot outdoors I want to start my own note book for calibrating the scope.
(As an aside, technically, only allowed to shoot at berns set at 25, 50, and 100 yards. But, in keeping with the spirit of safety in not the the letter of the law, I have a steel chicken that hangs from a rebarb bent into an upside down "U." The chciken will be about two feet off the ground, high enough to hit the bern without skipping issues.)

My plan is to place the steel animal at various ranges and takes notes/make marks for magnification power, AO range, and elevation clicks. My question is which yardages? Here's my guess, based on the standard in meters of meters:40,60, 77, 100:
yards: 45, 75,84, 109

At the last sil match I should have written down where they were placing the targets..I do know they were measuring in yards, not meters. When using SV ammo, do a few yards make a difference? Are these yardages the basic ones to have calibrated? I do realize that every range is going to be a little different, though I doulbt that I will be doing much traveling.

Re ammo: availability of ammo at an acceptable price: Aquila 40g "Super extra"
Good enough i hope?


1135 fps. at the muzzle - standard velocity. ....Technically designed bullets which provide max accuracy & due to their lubrication do not foul the barrel. Clean combustion gunpowder and high velocities at low pressure. ELEY prime process providing reliable ignition.

wphill wrote: Questions..

If I was to secure one reference point on a scope...would it be 50 yards? That would be set at zero?

And, I assume that any time I tweak the mount or remove the scope, I would simply rezero at 50 and
all the notes on plus/- clicks remain the same.

My plan is to place the steel animal at various ranges and takes notes/make marks for magnification power, AO range, and elevation clicks. My question is which yardages? Here's my guess, based on the standard in meters of meters:40,60, 77, 100:
yards: 45, 75,84, 109

At the last sil match I should have written down where they were placing the targets..I do know they were measuring in yards, not meters. When using SV ammo, do a few yards make a difference? Are these yardages the basic ones to have calibrated? I do realize that every range is going to be a little different, though I doulbt that I will be doing much traveling.

Re ammo: availability of ammo at an acceptable price: Aquila 40g "Super extra"
Good enough i hope?


1135 fps. at the muzzle - standard velocity. ....Technically designed bullets which provide max accuracy & due to their lubrication do not foul the barrel. Clean combustion gunpowder and high velocities at low pressure. ELEY prime process providing reliable ignition.

wphill,

The only way I know to answer your question is to tell you what I do. First, I need to make sure that you are aware that on scopes with target turrents, you can loosen the turrent knob and set it at "0" wherever you want. On Leupolds you need a little allen wrench and on Weavers and Bushnells there is a screw on top of the knob that allows you to move it. Judging from what you have been writing, I THINK you know that but I not everyone does.

At every match, I use the warmup time to check/set the sight settings. I have a spiral bound book of lined note cards that stays in my vest pocket. Before I start, I turn to a clean note card and write the date and the range at the top, then I write C, P, T, R. It looks like this:

9/9/13 - South Miss. Gun Club

C -

P -

T -

R -

Then I sight in my rifle for the chickens. Doesnt really matter if they are at 40 meters or 40 yards or whatever. I have to shoot the chickens at that day for the distance they are set at, so I get it dead on at that distance. I do it offhand but some people are not comfortable doing that or just prefer to do it off the bench - whatever you like is fine. After I get the rifle sighted in for chickens, I adjust the turret knob where the chicken setting is at "0". Then I write the sight setting in my book. It looks like this:

9/9/13 - South Miss. Gun Club

C - 0

P -

T -

R -

Now I move to pigs and sight in the rifle at whatever distance the pigs are. It's usually about two minutes difference, but it might be a little more or less. I have a quarter-minute adjustible scope, so one click above two minutes is written 2.25; one click below two minutes is written 1.75, etc. After the scope is set at pigs, i look to see what the knob says and I write it down. Lets say it is two minutes above zero, my page will look like this:

9/9/13 - South Miss. Gun Club

C - 0

P - 2.0

T -

R -

Then I move to turkeys and do the same thing. Lets say that the setting is halfway between four and five minutes above zero (two clicks above 4). It will look like this:

9/9/13 - South Miss. Gun Club

C - 0

P - 2.0

T - 4.5

R -

Finally, I go to Rams. Lets say my ram setting is one click behind 7 minutes. My final sheet will look like this:

9/9/13 - South Miss. Gun Club

C - 0

P - 2.0

T - 4.5

R - 6.75

Now I have sight settings that I can use for the match that I'm about to shoot and it doesnt matter what distances the targets are set at. Usually the settings dont change a lot between ranges so you can use your last numbers as a starting point. Just remember that the chicken setting for whatever range you're currently shooting needs to be Zero.

As far as which ammo to use. I woundnt worry much about it right now. Just get something that your rifle shoots reasonably well and use that. You can upgrade your ammo as you get better and better.

Dustin

Dustin,
Perfect info. The nuts and bolts, such as you provide, help a to increase the comfort level
and to ratchet down intimidation. Thank you!

Previously, when folks talked about numbers, such as "2,5,8etc"...I thought that they were
talking about number of clicks above the zero setting. I like your structure. And, I did
notice most of the guys with notebooks.

When you're shooting at the chicken or any other stations, prior to the the match, is it typical of the range to provide either a paper target or a single swinging animal? At the range last night, they only offered a swinging 3inch steel circle.
All shooters rested their rifle of a bench to zero and after that referred to their notes. Of course, these are members that have shot there before...though I wondered if they always used the same rifle/scope for every match.

Impressed that you would zero in offhand. That would be nice. Simpler and true to what you are actually doing. Then again, I would imagine that you are quite comfortable in this situation. A nice goal to have.

wphill wrote:
When you're shooting at the chicken or any other stations, prior to the the match, is it typical of the range to provide either a paper target or a single swinging animal? At the range last night, they only offered a swinging 3inch steel circle.
All shooters rested their rifle of a bench to zero and after that referred to their notes. Of course, these are members that have shot there before...though I wondered if they always used the same rifle/scope for every match.

Some places have paper at each target, some have swingers, some some dont have anything. You just have to use what you have. If there was a swinging circle, then that's what you'll have to use.

Most people do use the same rifle/scope at every match. You'll want to get a setup and stick with it. If you shoot most of your matches at the same range, your settings will by and large be the same each match. You should still double-check them before the match though.

Where do you live? Where are you shooting?

Dustin

Dustin,

Meant to add that I ilve in louisville while new orleans is my home town. I see that BR is your
home location. I grew up forbid to hunt, though all adult males carried. Both related to my
father's ww2 experience. Now, i'm retired, almost 63, and in need of an absorbing hobby. Due to related ligament problems in most joints I had to give up golf and flat water kayaking. I really miss the latter. My connection with nature.
Shooting is a physical challenge but I can work around it. Started bullseye shooting with an old model 41 but found
that my eyes liked a scope and to be outside.

Last time I was in nola, I went to a shooting range in laplace with a high school class mate.
As a city boy I really stuck out. AR's abounded. I much prefer the simplicity and relative quietness
of a bolt rifle with sv .22. Within the month I hope to finally have a suppressor for my cz 452. Until I get the fix for an
ejection problem with a 1712, this cz is by far my favorite. When I get back to nola, I have a nephew. He's never
shot and is asking me to take him shooting. There's a new indoor...25 yd ...range in Kenner.

How I envy those that can step out their door and set up their own range.
Thanks for the continuing stream of information.Bill