Hello Everyone,

My name is Dylan, i'm 17 years old and living in Mesa, Arizona. I've been shooting for a great majority of my life and about a year ago I fell in love with rimfire shooting after owning and eventually selling my first deer rifle in 300 WSM. The recoil was too much (but I did love it) and screwed up my fundamentals to a point where drastic measures needed to be taken. I sold the Rifle, and bought a Savage MkII-TR and with the money I had saved up in the two years I had the 300 I was able to purchase a decent 10x scope from SWFA. Now that I'm back on track with my fundamentals i'm looking to branch out into other forms of shooting.

I'd say I was about 13 when I decided I wanted to be on the US Palma Team some day. So overall, that's the goal. But for now, in this economy, and not being able to find a job, improvisation is the key. For me, that means I must go the inexpensive rout whenever possible. Thankfully rimfire fits the criteria perfectly! But the cost to build a prone/aperture rig even in rimfire is much more expensive than an entry level silhouette rig that can easily pull double duty as a small game rifle. So this is what i'll be doing for the time being. At the same time i'll be shooting slung up in the prone with my TR once I buy a stock that I can fit an Anschutz hand rail into. I have to start somewhere I suppose.

I'm interested in putting a rifle together to pull double duty as a small game rifle, and a smallbore silhouette rifle for the hunter class. I think the hunter class would be best for me, as it allows me to compete in both of the available classes instead of being limited to only standard. For the time being, I am stuck with my Savage, and although i'm sure it will get me by for a while in standard class, I would like to have a dedicated rifle for the sport. But first, I still need to get my feet wet and decide if it's something I want to dedicate myself to.

Talking to members of other boards/forums I ultimately wound up here and what a wonderful source of information this site is! I've already been able to find the answers to most of my questions, so i'll just get straight to the point in saying that I think a CZ-452 Silhouette with BLK 200 series rings and a Vortex Crossfire 6-24x50mm 1" scope special through SWFA would be close to ideal as possible that i'm going to get to for under $500.

Once I get the Savage back up and running i'll make sure to post some pictures of targets fired offhand unsupported at both 50 and 100 yards. Last time I tried running this drill didn't turn out too terrible, but not anywhere near stellar either. In fact out of five shots, I got one hit on the chicken at 50 yards. The other four shots were all within 0.5" of hitting though. I've been a bi-pod/no rear support shooter my entire life though, so everything positional (yes, even prone unfortunately) is pretty new and unfamiliar to me. Where I really shine is behind a shotgun busting clays or on the bench shooting paper. Hopefully with some training, alot of hard work, and dedication, my positional shooting goals can be achieved!

Thanks for reading,



-Dylan

Hey Dylan, I think I have talked to you over on SnipersHide.

First and foremost, welcome to Steel Chickens!

Second... get your butt over to Ben Avery and shoot your TR in their monthly matches. Don't waste any time! I lived in AZ for 13 years and always wanted to try silhouette but always came up with reasons not to go and check it out. Once I moved up to Denver a local guy talked me into giving it a try. Now I look back at all the fun I missed out on while living down in AZ. They have a great program there and a fantastic group of people. Get over there. Does Rio Salado still have silhouette? I think I remember you saying that you shoot there.

Also, I think I remember that you shoot out in the desert as well. For some informal off-hand practice you should check out my "off-hand" game over on RimfireCentral. http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/sh ... p?t=231987

If you can get into the Crossfire and CZ Silo for around $500 then I think that would be a great start into the Hunter class and also serve you well as an actual hunting rifle.

Cheers!

Dylan, first let me congratulate you on your decision to join the brotherhood, you will not regret it and without a doubt if you stick with the sport you will become a much better off hand shooter. You sound like a very intelligent young man and I do not doubt you will go places if you follow your plans.

You live in a city close to one of the best shooting facilities in the US (Ben Avery Shooting Range) and also there is a shooting range near you where they shoot SB and HP Silhouette Rifle Matches. Both locations have very active groups of rifle silhouette shooters some of which are world class and you will be able to learn a lot from them. Do not be afraid to approach them and ask for help or advice on anything related to the sport.

Hope to see you at one of the AZ state championships.

Dylan - "In fact out of five shots, I got one hit on the chicken at 50 yards. The other four shots were all within 0.5" of hitting though."

Right there you just nailed the thing that makes silhouette so different than other competitive rifle target shooting. There are so many ways to miss in this game . What would be a 8 or even 9 ring shot on some paper targets are Zero in silhouette. Check out this picture. This is a CAD drawing of the Ram scaled up in size for 600 yards and placed inside the 600 yard F-Class target. Notice how many places you can miss the Ram but still score a 9 if you were laying down shooting the paper.

We were thinking of plotting out some 600 yard Rams and going to the F-class match to paste them over and shoot it offhand. Then we could get ring scores in F-Class "offhand class lol" and Ram scores. It is our only option at this time for full distance shooting + but I think that may be about to change



The 452 will serve you well and teach you what you need. You are lucky to be in a place with an active program and ranges already setup. As mentioned you WILL become a better offhand shooter if you stick with silhouette which will make you a better shooter overall IMO as nothing is harder than using nothing as a rest

Dee

Trent wrote:Hey Dylan, I think I have talked to you over on SnipersHide.

First and foremost, welcome to Steel Chickens!

Second... get your butt over to Ben Avery and shoot your TR in their monthly matches. Don't waste any time! I lived in AZ for 13 years and always wanted to try silhouette but always came up with reasons not to go and check it out. Once I moved up to Denver a local guy talked me into giving it a try. Now I look back at all the fun I missed out on while living down in AZ. They have a great program there and a fantastic group of people. Get over there. Does Rio Salado still have silhouette? I think I remember you saying that you shoot there.

Also, I think I remember that you shoot out in the desert as well. For some informal off-hand practice you should check out my "off-hand" game over on RimfireCentral. http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/sh ... p?t=231987

If you can get into the Crossfire and CZ Silo for around $500 then I think that would be a great start into the Hunter class and also serve you well as an actual hunting rifle.

Cheers!

Hey Trent! Indeed you have talked to me over on Sniper’s Hide. And thanks for the warm welcome everyone.

Ben Avery is a bit of a drive from where I live, but I do love that range! I hope to make it out there to participate in their monthly matches someday, but for now I am going to the closer Rio Salado shooting range, which does still have their monthly Silhouette competitions. That’s actually been a goal of mine, to make it out there one of these times to participate. Oh, and yes I do shoot out in the desert when I can’t make it to a range for more formal shooting or if there is a distance restriction that needs to be overcome. Otherwise it’s difficult to find a spot that isn’t overrun by, well put simply, douche bags. Everybody seems to lack a general respect for each other and there is no such thing as common courtesy when ever I travel to the desert to shoot.

Nice work on that informal offhand game over at RFC too, I haven’t finished reading the first page yet, but it looks very promising from what I’ve read thus far. I’ll be sure to try it out and post the results!

lone ringer wrote:Dylan, first let me congratulate you on your decision to join the brotherhood, you will not regret it and without a doubt if you stick with the sport you will become a much better off hand shooter. You sound like a very intelligent young man and I do not doubt you will go places if you follow your plans.

You live in a city close to one of the best shooting facilities in the US (Ben Avery Shooting Range) and also there is a shooting range near you where they shoot SB and HP Silhouette Rifle Matches. Both locations have very active groups of rifle silhouette shooters some of which are world class and you will be able to learn a lot from them. Do not be afraid to approach them and ask for help or advice on anything related to the sport.

Hope to see you at one of the AZ state championships.

Thank you for the kind words! I’ll be doing my very best to make it to as many competitions as I can and hopefully some day I’ll be good enough to make it to state, that would be such a massive accomplishment! I’ll do my best, but no promises for a while ;)

Dee wrote:Dylan - "In fact out of five shots, I got one hit on the chicken at 50 yards. The other four shots were all within 0.5" of hitting though."

Right there you just nailed the thing that makes silhouette so different than other competitive rifle target shooting. There are so many ways to miss in this game . What would be a 8 or even 9 ring shot on some paper targets are Zero in silhouette. Check out this picture. This is a CAD drawing of the Ram scaled up in size for 600 yards and placed inside the 600 yard F-Class target. Notice how many places you can miss the Ram but still score a 9 if you were laying down shooting the paper.

We were thinking of plotting out some 600 yard Rams and going to the F-class match to paste them over and shoot it offhand. Then we could get ring scores in F-Class "offhand class lol" and Ram scores. It is our only option at this time for full distance shooting + but I think that may be about to change



The 452 will serve you well and teach you what you need. You are lucky to be in a place with an active program and ranges already setup. As mentioned you WILL become a better offhand shooter if you stick with silhouette which will make you a better shooter overall IMO as nothing is harder than using nothing as a rest

Dee

I think you’ve made a very fine point in the above paragraphs. This will eventually bring me to a question I’ve been meaning to ask. There is no grey area in the scoring system for smallbore silhouette. It’s either a hit, or simply a miss. And I would like to practice with paper targets instead of the steel ones to track my advancements. I know that shooting paper is my best bet, but what type of target should I shoot at?

I have the 1/5th scale animal targets, as well as all sizes of smallbore bulls. I can use either but which will be better for practice purposes? I like the 600 yard Ram overlay thing you did above, but I cannot find anything similar to that. Something tells me that an even amount of both targets is what will be the best idea, but I could be wrong of course.

Oh, and before I forget to ask, how much more difficult is HP silhouette compared to SB? It would seem an incredible amount more difficult, considering the massive increase in distance.

I understand that the vital part to shooting in any discipline is to master your form. You are very correct by saying that there are plenty of skilled shooters and facilities for me to take advantage of and learn from. I hope to make the most of my time here in Arizona. I’d be wasting a ton of resources if I didn’t.


Thank you all very much, and have a wonderful day.



-Dylan

Measa shoots silhouette once a month at usuary park (Im sure I didn't spell that right.) Get over there and look around and talk to the shooters. Most will be more than happy to chat with you.

Jerry G wrote:Measa shoots silhouette once a month at usuary park (Im sure I didn't spell that right.) Get over there and look around and talk to the shooters. Most will be more than happy to chat with you.

Jerry I think it is Usery. That is the Rio Salado club.

Dee,

Thanks for posting that overlay! That sure does put it into perspective!!

Oh, and before I forget to ask, how much more difficult is HP silhouette compared to SB? It would seem an incredible amount more difficult, considering the massive increase in distance.

-Dylan[/quote]

Shooting HP is no more difficult than SB, Targets are scaled to distance so sight picture is always the same. However, you do have the additional challenges of mirage, wind and recoil to deal with.

IMO HP scores seem to be lower as a result of less practice, due to higher cost (ammo, barrels), time needed for reloading and few 500 meter ranges.

Yep, Trent and Jerry, the range I frequent most often is Rio Salado in Usery Pass Recreational Park. They have their monthly silhouette matches there and hopefully this month i'll be participating in my first!

Ken, thank you for the reply.

Everyone, the CZ silo might not happen for quite a few months, probably longer. So I have to make due with my Savage in Standard class for the time being. I think i'll be just alright with it after some practice. Unfortunately, my time not spent at the shooting range has just been increased by another week. I'm at three months without shooting, and I can't stand it! Next weekend will be the weekend! I have 5+ rimfire comps to shoot for my main website. After those, i'll be dedicating the rest of the day to figuring out my form and to find out what works best for me.

I actually think once i've figured out what stance I like the most, i'll run a "mock match" with the paper animals at 50 and 100 yards. 15 shots per target under regular time restrictions should be sufficient. Hopefully this will give me a good idea of where I stand (no pun intended), and how much I have to learn.

Thanks for reading, have a great day everyone!



-Dylan

next match at rio is the 20th. see you there.

I wish I had your rifle when I started out. I shot a Rem 597 semi auto that stove piped like crazy with a 3x9 Tasco un-adjustable objective for the first 4-6 months before I got the CZ. You will not be shorted by your rig. It will take you a few to get the hang of things anyway and you will probably shoot way to fast at first anyway.

Then again you never know you might go out there and "Terrorize" them with your sleeper rig Just have fun and learn what you can.

Dee

PS I would think most match directors would let you shoot more than just the one match. You won't get a score recorded for the Hunter Class but we always let people who only have a rifle that fits standard shoot the 2nd match for fun anyway.

Trent, I got real close to the name of the range. For all you English speaking people, that would be River Salt gun club. I guess we speak different than most other countries do, Salt River.

Dylan, don't make life complicated for your first 'mock run' . Reduce the size of your targets and shoot them all at the same range. Say, 40 meters which would be about 44 yards. Have a good time

Jerry G wrote:Trent, I got real close to the name of the range. For all you English speaking people, that would be River Salt gun club. I guess we speak different than most other countries do, Salt River.

Ha! That is interesting. I lived there for 13 years and never figured that out. Rio Salado... River Salt. I even had a pretty good hint and still couldn't put two and two together. The Rio Salado Gun Club is right by the Salt River.