My wife and I took up Cowboy lever action a couple of years ago and we have a great time. We both plan our vacations around the nationals at Raton New Mexico. Last year I made the mistake of taking my wife to the high power range and showing her the 1000 yard buffalo target. I have never shot that far and neither has she, but her goal during this year's vacation is to shoot the 1000 yard buffalo. The only High Power rifles we own are a couple of 30-30s and one 38-55 cowboy. If anyone has a load for the 38-55 or the 30-30 that will make it 1000 yards and ding that buffalo target, please help me out a little. I need to make this happen for her but I don't want to buy a high power scoped rifle.

Glen -

According to my ballistics calculator, (using a typical 200 meter Ram load): A 170gr SP 30-30 bullet moving 2200FPS at the muzzle, at Raton's altitude on a dry day at 60 degrees F, will reach the 1000 target at 862FPS... Should barely hear a "ding" with that... But it also shows a 80 MOA drop with the sights zero'd at 100 meters.... 80 MOA at that distance is roughly.... 837.5 inches!!!

In other words; bring a lunch, plenty of ammo, and hope you get lucky! LOL!

-Tim

A 69 foot holdover! It would be fun to try though...

Wouldn't it be easier to just borrow a rifle from someone there or ask someone with an appropriate rifle to bring it with them for her to shoot?

Jason wrote:Wouldn't it be easier to just borrow a rifle from someone there or ask someone with an appropriate rifle to bring it with them for her to shoot?

Aw Jason, don't spoil her fun! Even a 750gr Hornady A-Max out of a 50BMG running 2700FPS has a 23 MOA drop at 1000 meters and would require a 247 inch holdover.... However it would still be moving at 2039FPS.... Might be a bit louder ding!

-Tim

There's a couple of guys over at Marlinowners that have been doing some long distance shooting with their 38-55s. Here is one of the stickies about their shooting.

http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/inde ... 431.0.html

Mav -

Thanks for posting that...

Glen -

You need to contact this guy and see what load he's using in his 38-55! According to the guy filming, on his 3rd shot he hit a 20x28 INCH target offhand at 1000!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO6ihrcukcc

-Tim

Glen,

You can hit the 1000 meter buffalo at the HP range with a .38-55, or even a .30-30, but one hurdle you'll have to clear is that because the buffalo is in a clearing surrounded by pinyon-juniper you won't be able to walk your shots in as you will see nothing until you get your bullet into that clearing. And then, with smaller calibers/lighter bullets, you'll be hard pressed to see the bullet strikes, either on the ground or on the target.

If we have an opportunity at this year's nationals you can try one of my single-shot .45-70 target rifles. I haven't shot the Whittington Center buffalo, but I spent plenty of lead and powder shooting at Homer, the buffalo target at the Ridgway Rifle Club in Pennsylvania, when I lived back east. My sight setting proved to be twice my 500 meter ram setting

Call in an airstrike.

I'm hoping to get a load that will "ding" the buffalo with her 30-30 Marlin. I have a friend that was a Marine Sniper and he has a custom 308 that will hit the buffalo with ease . He knows the proper hold over with that rifle, but setting a rifle in sand bags and shooting a scoped, pre set gun isn't appealing to her. I think she wants to do an iron sight, standing shot......Yeah, I know it's tough but a lot of fun. I have looked at Hornady's Leverloution rounds and may try them. If I can load many and she just hits the buffalo once she'll have something to Brag about to her girlfriends......Heck, Most of us would be bragging about that shot if we made it! Tim, thanks for the ballistics. I wasn't shocked at the hold over, just the speed that you figured all that!

I think that the hold over amount would be like an air strike.

glen ring wrote: ....(snip) Tim, thanks for the ballistics. I wasn't shocked at the hold over, just the speed that you figured all that!

I think that the hold over amount would be like an air strike.

Glen -

No prob... I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, nor am I that smart "on my own"... But I do spend a lot of time "theorizing" with such programs such as Larry Medler's Silhouette Ballistics vers. 19 that I won as a door prize at Raton in 2009.

I have to admit, after watching the YouTube videos of those guys shooting the 600-1000yard dingers with the 1300FPS 38-55 (one of them OFF HAND!)... I am impressed and may try that Buffalo at Raton this year (but only if I can get it dialed in at 500 yards though... I'd hate to "walk one in blind" at 1000).

-Tim

Glen,
One of my favorite things to do is shoot at "Homer" the 1,000 yard steel buffalo that Cimmaron Red told of with my 30-30 Teddy Roosevelt Commemorative rifle. It is fitted with a mid range vernier tang sight which helps. The elevation adjustment from 100 to 1,000 yards is about .75".
I am using cast bullets 202 to 220 grs at around 2,000 f.p.s. When those cast bullets find their mark, you can definitely hear the impact. It takes a little less than 3 seconds for the sound to come back to the firing line. What fun! Teddy would be proud!


With a jacketed bullet I would suggest a 170 gr rn or flat point at 2,000 - 2,200 f.p.s. Spitzer bullets typically go a bit wild when going from supersonic to subsonic. The problem that you will run into is getting the proper elevation. You will definitely need some one with a spotting scope and 2 or 3 or more on spotting scopes would be better to try and locate bullet impacts for correction since 30 Caliber bullets do not make nearly the ground disturbance that 45 caliber bullets do.

The buffalo at Whittington is actually 1,123 yards away. That extra 123 yards will definitely make a difference in elevation. It would definitely be a big help to have some idea of the elevation that you will need to be in the vicinity of the buffalo before the 1st shot is fired.

Here's a short story by Jim Taylor using his 30-30 at Whittington on the buffalo.....
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylo ... grange.htm

Have fun!
w30wcf

Hi after the 2010 nationals, outback Mick, Doc and myself went up to the big buffalo range and proceeded to empty all our remaining ammo trying to hit the buffalo. Alot of fun was had even though we didn't get close even to the clearing. My suggestion is that you take a good spotting scope with you, we only had our binoculars as permitted by the CLAS rules,

The Ex Pom

Glen,

Given an accurate and relatively fast load in a .30-30 (2000 to 2200 fps, as Jack has posted), the limiting factor to hitting that buffalo will be your sights. Jack's come-up from 100 to 1000 yards is .75" or 75 MOA on his soule tang sight. With my .45-70 Browning 1885 shooting a 540 grain bullet at 1230 fps with a soule tang sight the come-up from 200 meters to 1000 yards is about 135 MOA. From my rifle's tang to my buffalo setting is 3 1/2 inches. From the center line of the bore to my buffalo setting is about 2 1/2 inches. I cannot get a cheek weld with my sight so high. Cheek weld shouldn't be a problem with the much faster .30-30, but your sight may need as much as one inch or more of elevation above your 100 yard setting. What sight are you using now?

Here's a short video of Dave Gullo, owner of Buffalo Arms Co., shooting the 1000 meter + Whittington Center buffalo. His rifle is a Sharps-Borchardt chambered in what appears to be a .45-90 or larger cartridge. Note that he has plenty of time after the shot to shift his eye to the spotting scope and see the hit. Also note how high up on the staff is the sight's eye piece.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b59f573156