After downloading and reading the program for the 2010 Southern Nats I am wondering why the rifles are being given away based on the shooters classification. Since the drawing itself is totally seperate from the shooting event and will be performed before a match shot is even fired why break down the rifles for one in each class?

I understand the prizes for shooting being equal for all classes and I think that is great that B class gets the chance to win the same 1st place prize as Master class but that is based on the participants actual shooting.

When you consider that everyone put up a extra $20 this year for the rifles shouldn't that mean we all have an equal chance at winning one of them regardless of the class? Look at the numbers from 2008's match.

S H

M 28 32
AAA 72 66
AA 60 52
A 34 34
B 12 16


It is easy to see that AAA and AA make up the majority of the entries with Master and A close and B is very low. With the drawing putting each person in their highest class you could end up with 10 or less shooters in B class and 100 in AAA. Now if we all paid $20 that means B class would only have ponied up $200 and AAAs portion would be $2000. Thus B class would have a 1 in 10 chance of winning a rifle and AAA would have 1 in 100. That seems like a fairly large skewing of the odds based on nothing more than someone's classification.

Wouldn't it be fair to just put everyone that is able to legally win a rifle all in one drawing regardless of classification since this is by all measures nothing more than a raffle? We all have the same amount invested regardless of class so we should all have a shot at winning any of the 5 rifles. This way you could just let the chips fall where they may and who knows B class could win all 5 rifles and that would be just peachy with me so long as I know I had a equal chance to win as they do. I think the rifle give away is a great idea and I would kick in $20 every year for the drawing if it was not based on classification.

Not trying to stir anything up its just something I couldn't help but notice as the numbers ran in my head along with the logic and they just do not compute.


CZ

Welcome to the chicken house Mr. CZ 4 me! Your first post will likely be met with all kinds of freindly reviews. That's just as it should be, keeping the new guys truly excited about the sport.

But, perhaps maybe, just maybe, the pro's from Winnsborro who have been doing this for like 20 years, have thought this out very carefully and have decided that their program in it's 20th year, really does address the wants and desires of everyone who has been previously invloved.

Hey, I've been wrong so many times before around here, so it wold not surprise me if I am wrong now.

Anyway, welcome, and the best of luck to you at the Southern Nationals... The greatest show on dirt.

Don't let a diplomatic response fm Metalhead fool you... it's a trap. Out there lurks a mob just aching to tell you the same thing in considerably less diplomatic terms. Such as "Then we'll do it YOUR way at the match YOU put on that draws 240 shooters and gives away more than $50k in prizes." Or maybe... "Damn... why didn't we think of that.... oh, wait. We did and rejected it out of hand." You really must take heed around this surly and sarcastic crowd but never show fear or they'll turn on you like meatbats. It's quiet out there right now.... too quiet.

CWS wrote:never show fear or they'll turn on you like meatbats. It's quiet out there right now.... too quiet.

Since when did you have to show fear for this group to turn on you? But then, if Marv is giving civil advice anything can happen...

Didn't David (Duckgumbo) address this earlier?

Probably the best reason to be given for the the drawing being as it is cause Ducky wants it so.....It IS good to be King. Long live King Ducky

Kitty

Are you the same guy that wrote a letter complaining to a sponsor that a '20% Off' coupon was worthless because you could buy it cheaper than that on the internet?





Ha-Ha... Inside joke for some of us anyway... Anyway, point being that They, McLemore specifically, devotes a large chunk of his time to this match... He has been there/done that and has thought this through... but let's humor him and walk through the steps... Just like your numbers show, the Raffle is geared toward a bias for B shooters first and foremost, than A and Master...

Most of the folks in master class stand about as much of a chance of winning something as the man in the moon. It's a running joke that once you make master, your days of walking up to the awards tables at Winnie are done... They all get a chance at a Rifle...

B and A shooters, does anyone actually care they may have a 60% disadvantage $ for $ in a drawing that is set up geared toward B and A shooters? Personally I don't think so, some may see it differently... I think of B and A shooters as primarily Children and Spouses that are 'getting into' the sport, what better group can you skew something for?


Not ranting or bashing, just saying....

Chicken

Marv - Did I do good?

Well said George. I like your perspective.

Amen George. Your attempts to make super fair deals for the guys starting out, as well as the more seasoned members of the Good Ol' Boys Club, (GOBC), are routinely overlooked. That right there is a shame.

Okay, who is that really posting as Metalhead?

That's a good one, considering that post deserved an Ftard or two....

Especially in our sport and in this time of so many wanting to take our rights away, anything we can do to promote our sport and its new shooters should be encouraged.

I'd even be willing to bet most, if not all, the Master class shooters would be willing to have the rifle for Master Class be added to the A and B shooter drawings, maybe with a maximum age of 15 stipulation, to help promote a new shooter to our ranks. After all they already have their favourite rifles and have more trophies then they want to dust anymore what is more rewarding then seeing a young new shooters eyes light up on winning a new rifle.

That my friends truly is PRICELESS.....

Amen Bob. And then they pay us back by beating the old farts like drums...

GeoNLR wrote:Are you the same guy that wrote a letter complaining to a sponsor that a '20% Off' coupon was worthless because you could buy it cheaper than that on the internet?





Ha-Ha... Inside joke for some of us anyway... Anyway, point being that They, McLemore specifically, devotes a large chunk of his time to this match... He has been there/done that and has thought this through... but let's humor him and walk through the steps... Just like your numbers show, the Raffle is geared toward a bias for B shooters first and foremost, than A and Master...

Most of the folks in master class stand about as much of a chance of winning something as the man in the moon. It's a running joke that once you make master, your days of walking up to the awards tables at Winnie are done... They all get a chance at a Rifle...

B and A shooters, does anyone actually care they may have a 60% disadvantage $ for $ in a drawing that is set up geared toward B and A shooters? Personally I don't think so, some may see it differently... I think of B and A shooters as primarily Children and Spouses that are 'getting into' the sport, what better group can you skew something for?


Not ranting or bashing, just saying....

Chicken

Marv - Did I do good?

Does this mean that if you are B class, but are NOT a women or child, that you will be out of place and should not go?

Hijack underway!!
To ALL B, A, AA class shooters: There is not better place to get experience than to attend a big match. THere is no better big match than the Southern Nationals. To those that have scheduling, travel or other commitments looks locally, CBC is a great match, most state championships and regionals that I ahve shot are well run and great place to meet and mingle with the "upper class shooters" who BTW are real people too.

As for the drawing in class for rifle/scope the intention is to make the opportunity equal for each shooter in a class based on entry, not performance as many of us that have shot for years are aware that there are times the body does not cooperate fully with what the mind wants done. David and crew do their best to make the Southern Nationals an enjoyable and fun match for all. There is a a lot of thought, effort and planning that goes into this event, and suggestions are always welcome and listened to, while the actions taken may or may not fall into your idea of the right way to do things they are considered, and handled in the best way available with information provided at the time.

Chicken, dumb question...why you ask me??? Where are you? CBC is getting underway and you are not here?

Innocent

Winnsboro is a great place to watch world class shooters and learn from their technique! Everyone learns that they are competing with themselves, not the shooter down the line from them, and we're there to learn and have fun. And you will have fun or someone will put you on an IV drip!