Folks,

Got a question. If I permanently add wood to my stock to raise the comb up to the centerline of the bore, would this modification still be legal for Hunter Class?

thanks,

Tancred

Yes. Like you said, it must be permanent, fixed in place, at or below the centerline of the bore, and still make weight.

with rule book in hand, quote:

3.2.1 - "identical to the high power hunting sil. rifle rules" (with some exceptions noted), so i flip to the high power hunting rifle rules which state:

3.1.1 - "dimensions may not exceed those described in 3.1 (d)" (which is the high powersil. rules), so i flip to those rules which state:

3.1 (d) - "the comb shall not extend above the centerline of the bore, but monte carlo roll may rise 1/2" on the off side".

interestingly enough rule 3.1 (e) - "attachments which do not cause any portion of the rifle to exceed the weight or dimensions as listed herein are permitted provided they do not extend past the end of the barrel".....this may be the loophole for my cheekpiece also?




it is an attachment, not pertruding past the barrel, and not exceeding the centerline of the bore or weight restriction.
rule 3.15 under equipment:
buttplates and cheekpieces - Adjustable cheekpieces must be fixed and sealed in place. so if it's fixed and sealed in place, i and you should be ok, right? read on....

now i'm sure the "intent" of the hunter class is to take a bone stock squirrel getting styled .22 and compete with it. but is seems that the rules are grey enough to much interpretation:

rule 3.18 equipment - general - "all devices or equipment which may facilitate shooting and which are not mentioned in these rules, or which are contrary to the spirit of these rules and regulations are forbidden."

here comes my rant:

so, although it appears you can deviate around the rules that are printed, it's ultimately up to the range officer / match director to make a decision before the match begins, and goes on to say that the competitor is responsible to present it to them for judgement.

a stickler match director - answer probably "no" (as the spirit is probably to use a bone stock squirrel rifle)
a not so stickler match director (or if you know the guy or gal) - answer may be "yes" (as long as it's safe, and is generally a basic rifle)

if you post a high score i'm sure the rifle would be disqualified, but if you come with toys and trinkets and shoot a low score, may not be a problem with modifications.

is it just me or are the rules subject to much interpretation depending on your point of view, whether your a competitor or a match director? come to think of it, most manufacturers are putting out thumbhole stocks on some of their hunting rifles, which according to the rules are illegal.

so if the "spirit of the rules" are looked at through a stickler's eyes, no trigger weight mods should be done, along with any stock mods, high powered magnification scopes with sunshades, and target turrets may not be used as it goes against the spirit of a hunting rifle.

come to think of it, in that context, "match" ammo round noses shouldn't be allowed for hunting class, as expandable high velocity hollowpoints are more suited for hunting.

if i play a game, i like to follow the rules. but the more i look at the silhouette rules, the more vague they become when using the spirit of the rules banner to disqualify a rifle. i'm sure this is more pronounced at a regional competition and higher, and gets looked over at more local levels.

in my case (being the match director this year) i'll ask for a consensus of the competitors before i shoot, and if the answer no i can remove the cheekpiece totally and shoot.

a permanant one may be a bit "iffy", as it may go against the "spirit" of the rules.

here in PA., a semi auto rifle is not legal for hunting, so i can only suppose a 10/22 or other semi can be deemed "illegal", while in NY, 50 miles away, it could be.

TOP PREDATOR wrote:with rule book in hand, quote: -snip

now i'm sure the "intent" of the hunter class is to take a bone stock squirrel getting styled .22 and compete with it. but is seems that the rules are grey enough to much interpretation:

rule 3.18 equipment - general - "all devices or equipment which may facilitate shooting and which are not mentioned in these rules, or which are contrary to the spirit of these rules and regulations are forbidden."

here comes my rant:

so, although it appears you can deviate around the rules that are printed, it's ultimately up to the range officer / match director to make a decision before the match begins, and goes on to say that the competitor is responsible to present it to them for judgement.

a stickler match director - answer probably "no" (as the spirit is probably to use a bone stock squirrel rifle)
a not so stickler match director (or if you know the guy or gal) - answer may be "yes" (as long as it's safe, and is generally a basic rifle)

The "spirit" of the rules has been changed so that a $750+ Pharr stock to the absolute edge of the rules - but light enough in weight that a 54:18 action can be used - is the new "normal". So someone please provide him the Pharr stock dimensions and measurements in relation to the bore you have so he can stay legal. Then he can say - It is the same or less than a Pharr!! What Match Director would dare to outlaw that.

exactly.... on the other hand, would any average joe - 1. afford to put such a stock on a hunter class platform and 2. would that average joe take a 750.00 stock out banging inthe woods for a tree rat?

it's still worded the spirit of the rules, which is kind of vague in interpretation.

i just posted up a compilation of a .22 i put together for the intent of using it for silhouette hunter class, a tactical trainer, and critter getter. although it fits all the dimentions and weights (minus the bipod), does this appear to be a basic hunter rifle?



not to stir up a beesnest, but it does fit the rules as they are stated for hunter class, but can be DQed by the match director as it may not fit the cookie cutter description or appearance of a hunter class rifle.

Not looking to bend the rules, I just want a better cheek weld. There aren't too many stock options for a 452 Varmint. Thought there was a rule in Hunter that doesn't allow attachments, permanent or otherwise. Wasn't sure if gluing an addition to the comb would be considered an attachment. This would be my last resort solution, hate to ruin a good stock. But don't know what else to do. Will be putting on lower rings, but that won't gain me much.

Thanks,

Tancred

(c) Stock: A hunting style stock; thumbhole-type stocks are not permitted. Attachments, either removable or
permanent, are not permitted. Swivels and slings are permitted, but slings may not be used for arm
support in shooting. Dimensions may not exceed those described in 3.1(d).

http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/ ... -r-w03.pdf

Seems like you can't do it. Maybe you can get a taken-off stock from someone for $40. Or just shoot Standard Rifle.

Tancred wrote:Not looking to bend the rules, I just want a better cheek weld. There aren't too many stock options for a 452 Varmint. Thought there was a rule in Hunter that doesn't allow attachments, permanent or otherwise. Wasn't sure if gluing an addition to the comb would be considered an attachment. This would be my last resort solution, hate to ruin a good stock. But don't know what else to do. Will be putting on lower rings, but that won't gain me much.

Thanks,

Tancred

I had the same dilemna with a CZ 452 Varmint a couple years ago. As has been said, attachments permanent or not are not allowed in hunter class. I decided to bite the bullet and just remodel the factory stock. Here is the thread I posted when doing the work and pictures.

"It's Alive!"
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176

Before (stock pic from CZ website):



In process:









After:

Quonset Hut wrote:(c) Stock: A hunting style stock; thumbhole-type stocks are not permitted. Attachments, either removable or
permanent, are not permitted. Swivels and slings are permitted, but slings may not be used for arm
support in shooting. Dimensions may not exceed those described in 3.1(d).

http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/ ... -r-w03.pdf

Seems like you can't do it. Maybe you can get a taken-off stock from someone for $40. Or just shoot Standard Rifle.

i just can't run with the guys in my area in standard, they mostly have anchutz that shoot better than anything i have or hope to be with what i have. i can't plunk down that kind of $.

just to be a wiseass, if an attachment is removable, and is removed, then it's not really an attachmnent at all, so how can it be not permitted if not attached? guess it's one of those chicken or the egg, tree falls in the woods kinda things.

i know i'll probably have to take off the cheek piece, and shoot with a chin weld.

So solve my cheek weld problem I will probably get a Boyd blank and make my own. It's a lot of work, but the price is right.

Tancred

I think it's fine if the attachment is removed, and with a hunter stock you can either hold it at the jawline or move the stock up on further on your shoulder to get a better weld - whichever feels better to you. As for expensive gear, shoot what you like and practice. You'll beat a lot us with the high dollar rifles that haven't put in the range time or work to improve. All that stuff does is improve consistency, but consistent hits or consistent misses are up to the shooter.

Tancred wrote:So solve my cheek weld problem I will probably get a Boyd blank and make my own. It's a lot of work, but the price is right.

Tancred

If can't pop for an Anschutz (and that's a big bite for anyone), save for a CZ and maybe you'll stumble into a deal, particularly at one of the matches.

TOP PREDATOR wrote:i just can't run with the guys in my area in standard, they mostly have anchutz that shoot better than anything i have or hope to be with what i have. i can't plunk down that kind of $.

This sport is 90% shooter. Equipment can help, but it's the shooter that makes the targets fall. A CZ or Savage can make the targets fall just fine. The pictures above are of my CZ. The total "cost" of modifications to the stock were part of a 1x4 that I had lying around, some Bondo that was also lying around, a couple cans of spray paint, and some time. It shot AAA scores regularly, and the reason it didn't shoot master scores was me. The wonderful thing about this sport not being primarily an equipment race is that you can shoot well without high $$$ equipment. It also takes away the "I can't shoot with them because they spent more money!" excuse, though.

And the downside of high end gear is that when you miss, well, YOU missed.

Is the barrel of that black rifle tapered towards the muzzle, or constant diameter from breech to muzzle?

SteveM.