Hey y'all, first time poster (but looking at my profile would've told you that).

I've got a question for y'all on globe inserts. I recently picked up a CZ Ultra Lux that I intend to use as a Silhouette rifle. At least for a little while, while I decide if this really is a sport that I want to get into. Now I know the Ultra Lux has a 28" barrel, and this limits me into the standard class, but that's ok. I'll deal with it. Maybe even use my 10/22 for the hunter class for a while. I don't know.

But the question is that this Ultra Lux is sporting a BRNO target sight aperture/globe set up. What kind of insert do y'all recommend for the globe? I'm using a 3.3 mm plexi insert now, and figure that there has to be a more precise insert. So, if there is an insert that y'all suggest, where is a decent place to buy from?

The 10/22 is sporting a 4.5-14 Mueller APV.

Yes I've been reading past posts to get all the info that I can, but are there any tips that y'all feel the need or desire to toss out there?

Thanks in advance.

Click on the topic five back from this one called "let's see your rifles and scopes" Check out the rifles. I've shot silhouette targets with apeture sights just for fun but would not seriously consider it a practical approach. There's a talented gunsmith that advertises on this website home page named Evelio Mc Donald and while I don't know him there are examples of his work in pictures all over this website as well as testimonials,all first quality. Here's what you should do, contact him and get some suggestions, figure out a budget {sell your 10-22 if you need too}, send him the gun{the CZ} if he believes he can alter it and make it a viable rifle for this game. I hope it works out, Kevin

kevinbear wrote:Click on the topic five back from this one called "let's see your rifles and scopes" Check out the rifles. I've shot silhouette targets with apeture sights just for fun but would not seriously consider it a practical approach. There's a talented gunsmith that advertises on this website home page named Evelio Mc Donald and while I don't know him there are examples of his work in pictures all over this website as well as testimonials,all first quality. Here's what you should do, contact him and get some suggestions, figure out a budget {sell your 10-22 if you need too}, send him the gun{the CZ} if he believes he can alter it and make it a viable rifle for this game. I hope it works out, Kevin

Ok! I rarely post disagreements with someones reply, but I`m going to for this post. If the OP chooses to use open/aperture/peep sights I do not think this should be discouraged. Is it a tougher row to hoe? You bet it is. As someone who will be transitioning form a scope to peep sights this year I encourage "situation_normal" to give it a try if thats the challenge you seek. If the goal of the shooter is to improve thier marksmanship and have fun I see nothing wrong with peep sights. If your goal is to compete at a national level then eventually you will pick up better equipment as needed. Hopefully Kevin6q will see this post and help out with the insert size since he shoots with aperture sights on his 7-4 Biathlon rifle.

I use a 3.6 mm front insert with the horizontal bar. The larger aperture lets in more light. I just switched from a 3.2 and the larger hole is much better. Your eye will center the mass of the target. The larger aperture also reduces the relative motion of the target within the targeting area. I also work on developing a pattern of acquiring the target and don't try to use a rock steady hold. I use and up/down pattern where I come up on the target, take up the first stage of the trigger, and keep squeezing while trying to "freeze" the target just before the shot breaks. Follow through and inhale to bring the sights out the top of the target position. Re-bolt and exhale to drop the muzzle below the rail, acquire the next target and inhale to bring the muzzle up as before. My biathlon rifle allows me to rebolt without breaking position and this is the same pattern I use during races. The biathlon rhythm is also built for speed and 5 shots takes me about 20 seconds. The speed part can be debated forever but for me, silo is fantastic training for biathlon offhand shooting.

Getting back to the aperture size/sights. The larger opening also makes finding the target simpler and the horizontal bar also helps keep the rifle square to the sight adjustments. With the clear inserts a slight cant to the rifle is tougher to detect and ny adjustments move the POI in a diagonal and not straight up/down/left/right. The most annoying part of aperture sights is counting clicks when moving from one bank to the next. My Izhmash sights need 37 clicks to go from the chickens to rams. I've spent the time making a chart indicating the clicks from C-P-T-R giving the animal to animal change and the total from pigs (50 meters in the biathlon distance and my rifle is normally zeroed to 50M). Where it gets tough is when some non-charted adjustment must be made. I need to record the change(+/- clicks from the chart) and do the simple math for the next bank. Not too bad but if I screw it up the remainder of the meet is not too fun. If there was a zero lane it wouldn't be too bad but most ranges don't have a place to check zero during a match. There are indicator lines on the sights but the resolution is too course to be of any use. Most scopes have a way to get back to some known starting point. At the matches I attend there are also smallbore cowboy targets (1/2 size?) and I'll take a run through those at the end of the day just in case my click counting is bad. The larger targets are much more tolerant of being off a few clicks.

I typically shoot 15-17 animals during a match. If I practiced more I'm sure the number would go up. I enjoy the challenge of using aperture sights and have had no greater success when I've used a rifle with a scope. Granted the borrows gun didn't fit me as well and it was odd using a scope.

Chatcatdaddy...thanks for the remarks, I shot iron sights from '77 to '94...the eyes started failing. Can't say I made any higher than AA but that was fine with me, the challenge was good and I used a post front sight for silhouette. Use what you are comfortable with, different lighting may make you want to try different inserts. As for custom builds on rifles, I have several myself, still go back to the ole Winchester 52 remake with a Keynon trigger, I've shot my best scores (3-38's) with it and can pick it up anytime.


situation_normal welcome to the crazy sport of metallic silhouette and even crazier web page devoted to the sport. Just as there are many models of rifles/sight combinations, there are opinions as to which is the best, but remember those opinions are worth what you pay for them! Come enjoy the comradrarie, food and general fun loving harassment that this sport offers and shoot whatcha brung....or feel free to ask to borrow someone elses if you think you might want to try what they have.

Innocent Mary

Was there some meteor activity overnight because you guys sound like your in the Twilight Zone. Just kidding!! While shooting silhouette targets with apeture sights might be wonderful practice for biathalon it's doubtful that this is what this gentleman has in mind,I mean no offense to the other Kevin. Have Evelio cut four inches off the barrel, recrown, mount a scope, and reshape the stock if needed. The alterative to customizing the CZ would be to buy a heavy custom barrel and stock for the 10-22, Midway carries some neat stock/barrel combo's. I'm not familiar with the scope you have on it but 14 power is plenty for a new shooter as long as the elevation can be easily adjusted and then repeated.

No offense taken. I prefaced my use of aperture sights with the biathlon use/technique mostly to differentiate my enjoyment of silo as an alternate training discipline and not my primary shooting activity. My perspective on the use of aperture sights for silo shooting might be (most likely is) very different from someone whose shooting focus is silhouette. I'd prefer to not lead someone down the wrong path in terms of silo shooting based on how/why I participate in silo matches.

My experience using aperture sights might be of interest and bring to light some of the issues I have dealt with while using them to a shooter contemplating trying the sport with a rifle they already have. If a shooter wants to try using aperture sights we, as a shooting community, should encourage them to participate and not feel they need to arrive at the range with a tricked out custom rifle. I enjoy seeing the variety of rifle/sight combinations at silo matches. In the biathlon world there are two rifles used; Annies and Izhmash. Pretty dull.

I wholeheartedly agree with Innocent about hanging out with shooting buddies and having a good time regardless of the rifle one brings to a match. If silo shooters want the sport to grow and be recognized for what a true marksmanship accomplishment the sport truly is, we need to encourage anyone who arrives at a match and not instantly tell them to spend money to "...Have Evelio cut four inches off the barrel, recrown, mount a scope, and reshape the stock if needed. The alterative to customizing the CZ would be to buy a heavy custom barrel and stock for the 10-22, Midway carries some neat stock/barrel combo's..." if they want to enjoy themselves.

The suggestion of using a post up front is interesting. Posts are not used in biathlon and the use of one never occurred to me and I don't believe the are available for the Izhmash. Might have to make one up and try it. Innocent, what was the width of the post you used?

Excellent reply Kevin, I agree completely.

Rock on y'all. I love a forum where everyone likes to jump in and offer opinions. It gives ya things to chew on that may have not considered before. And when you are as new to this sport as I am... well I could use as many opinions as I can get.

Here's a little history on my 10/22...

20" Green Mountain fluted taper
Floated barrel
Polished and Chamfered bolt
Polished charging handle guide rod
Adjustable sear
VQ hammer
Burris signature zee rings
Mueller 4.5-14 APV
Custom carved stock
Custom mag release

She is a shooter, but it took some work to get her there. Next step will be to bed the action. But as it sits, shooting offhand I can hit shotgun shells out at 50 yards; not consistently, but often. 70 yards less frequently, but I do hit them.

The CZ Ultra Lux...

All stock right now with the exception of the BRNO target sight aperture/globe setup.
Trigger work will come.

Here's a little history on me...

I am a can killer. I like to shoot, and usually do so with a couple of my brothers and my son (he's fourteen). And yeah, we are a bit competitive with each other. We don't shoot too much paper, as we found that paper punching while shooting offhand can be very discouraging. Shotgun shells are much more rewarding. One of my brothers is pretty set on open sights. Which is why I want to try a peep sight setup. If I find that I can't shot them at the distances of Silhouette shooting, then I'll opt for some sort of glass. But the one time that I brought this CZ out, with just the stock open sight and shooting offhand I was hitting a bunch of those 20 ounce bottles that someone had tossed out there at about 70 yards.

I'm ready to take it up a notch. There is a local range with a fairly decent smallbore program. They do silhouette, bench rest, and indoor gallery shooting. The next date for new member orientation is April 18th. My son and I will be there for that. The next silhouette shoot is on the 19th. I won't be able to shoot that as my wife and I get one day each over the weekend, and if I'm using mine for orientation she gets the next. But I will stop in to watch for a few. I'll at least get to see some of the action so I can be prepared for the next event.

I wasn't expecting to buy the Ultra Lux when I did. I actually went in search of an American, but could find none within 50 miles. My intention was to use an American with some decent glass to get into this sport. But when this offer was presented to me... well I just couldn't pass it up. So it's what I 'm going to start with. If I find that I am really getting into this, then I still have the option of another rifle. But we'll hold off on that until I see where this leads.

Thanks for the tip on the 3.6 mm front insert with the horizontal bar. I hadn't considered how the horizontal bar could be of use. But in showing how the rifle could be canted off to the side, well yeah that would be helpful. We use our cross-hairs in our scopes to do it, why not in a front globe? I like the chart idea too, on the "how many clicks" idea. I will do that.


SN

Bring what ya got and come out and shoot!!!! Both rifles you have will get you started and do quit well. For hunter class no trigger lighter than 2 lbs..I shoot 10/22's that put 1 hole groups at 50 yards, that does not help me with Turkeys and Rams. I must do my part! I have learned that optics and ammo are key. Test your ammo at 100 meters and shoot the gun that feels the best!!!

Most of all

Enjoy the Journey


Blueline

You haven't mentioned where you reside, please do and I'm sure there's a SC poster that can help you out. Your 10-22 will work just fine until your in AA+. I'm testing Federal Auto-Match right now, weight sorting-etc. Pick some up from your local Walmart and try it, I'd be interested in how accurate it is in your tricked out 10-22.

Hey situation_normal,
Be careful!
I bought a Weatherby last fall, as a cross training tool to NRA High Power rifle. I may be hooked, just bought a Anchutz 1712 with a leupold. I also have a new XTC rifle that has been to the range 1 time to set up the sights. No loading done, usually by this time I'm up to 1500 rounds. Every time I go to practice, the .22 comes out and the XTC gun sets. If you like offhand shooting this is a hoot!
enjoy
chuck

kevinbear wrote:You haven't mentioned where you reside...

Sorry about that, where are my manners? I'm in Olympia Washington, and am looking at a membership at the Capital City Rifle & Pistol Club in Littlerock. Has anyone shot here before?

haha chuck, it sounds like you are already deep into an addiction.
SN

OH U"r in the Northwest with lots a top notch shooters. You guys come down and play in the sun with us sometime!!!!

Come August I may need to come up there for some SSS (salmon, steelhead,& Silhouette)...

Blueline