I was reading this on rimfire central the other day. Seems no one thinks any rifle can beat an Anschutz.
Everyone slams the trigger on the CZ as a fault. If you go to a firearms dissassembly book, you will see that the CZ trigger is a real close copy to the highly praised Model 70 Winchester trigger. I don't konw how many people I've heard say that it was one of the best ever made. That said what is everyone's problem with it. A little tuning and it is great. Futhermore, You can easily order parts for the CZ triggers. Try doing that for an Annie!
There has been discussion about accuracy of the CZ. I have 2 that will shoot .250 10 shot groups at 50 yds. and .750 10 shot groups at 100 yds. This is better than 90 % of us silhouette shooters can hold. I don't think the Annie is doing any better, it's just that having a $2000.00 .22 rifle is impressive to most. Impressions don't win matches, good shooting does.
I would also be willing to bet that in the hands of Cathy Winstead or Troy Lawton either the Annie or CZ would be capable of equal results.
Given you would have to get a CZ, order a stock, a trigger kit, scope, and rings. The cost of these would still not be as much as the Annie with like equipment.
The moral I am trying to get at is "Equipment cannot make up for poor shooting, but good shooting can overcome poor equipment!"

Compared to the Anschutz 5018 trigger, the Winchester model 70 trigger is junk. I have never seen a CZ, especially one with the factory barrel, that could shoot consistent 5-shot quarter inch groups at 50yds, much less 10-shot groups. Quarter inch 10-shot groups consistently is better than most top-end benchrest guns can do, so you claiming that you have not only one, but two, CZs that can do is suspect at best. Those groups are not just better than 90% of silhouette shooters can hold offhand, they are better than 100% can hold offhand. Unless you want to qualify those statements with "everyone once in a while", then I'll go ahead and call bull$hit on them even if you're using the best benchrests and wind flags made.

Since you live in Little Rock, AR, please either volunteer to show off your amazing CZs that shoot better benchrest guns to another shoot in the area (we have some from around there on this very board) or come back when you're willing to discuss this issue with truthful statements.

I keep the 50 yard target in my rifle case for comparison! Thats because I knew no one would believe it!

So you're saying it only did it once?

iceman,

Since you want to keep comparing your cz to an annie, I would suppose you also compare a timex to a Rolex a Bently to M300 chrysler, this would make them a benchmark, what all other guns,watches and cars are measured by.
No problems shoot your great guns and call all of use who smoke 20 dollar cigars and drink 100 dollar scotch and shoot 4000 dollar guns crazy, we`will not be offended at all.
I do agree with you last statement
I will be in your area in sept. would invite you to the benton gun club for the regional, and then we can just see those great groups.

By the way I have a 5 person witnessed 5 shoot target from a 1710 annie that was a .41 od, minus the bullet diameter .219 leaves a deviation of .191 at 100 ydrs, never done it agian, but hell I did it once.


Jason,

Good call I just called two of the east coast top bench shooters, they had more than a few choice words on this subject, like who is this, what size group and he's in the wrong sport.

All my guns shoot a one hole group at a 100 yrds, that damn second shoot really opens them up. LMAO

No I have more targets filed in my shop with the same results: .250 to .375 center to center!
Also, just a few years back Troy Lawton won a silhouette championship with a Ruger 10/22 just to prove it could be done! And you know a good CZ is more accurate that an autoloader! My point is if you find something you like and work with it, it just might beat the high end rifles.
I bought my first CZ 2 years ago. I liked the feel, I liked the way it shot, and have had no problems with the trigger once I installed the sear and spring kit.
I don't dislike Anschutz rifles, I just think we should give something else a chance! Anschutz has had over 100 years!

Oh, by the way Dawg; I am a member of the Benton Gun Club. I am only a AA shooter so far, I was a B shooter when I bought the CZ's! and I will see you Friday at Winny! I'm not a Master shooter, but I'm giving it a try! By the way My CZ and my teammates beat you last year at Winny in the team shoot! We were the 2nd place winners behind Troy, Cathy, and Lones! And the CZ managed 8 out of 10 turkeys!

Well then I'll get to see them groups and see some of them groups shot, so I can verify for Jason and KoldKut, guess you'll have to tell me who you are when you get there, as far a beating me, get in line your only one of a thousand. But then again it took your teammates and you as you put it to beat me, not my team, damn I guess it is true every dawg has his day it took four of you to beat my poor showing.LMAO

As far as giving somthing else a chance, If you'd ask george or greg the cz is what I recommend to all new shooters, I just love to piss my money away on toys. Just go ask doc.

Got my CZ on Saturday on the Dawgs recommendation. I must say, you talk of impressive groups, I want to know what ammo and what you have done to it to get it the way it is. The factory 5 shot @ 50m group was OD 1".....

glad Jason called bull$#it before i did... one of the top benchrest shooters in the PNW lives next door... we've had this conversation before about all those guys out there that shoot consistent less than 1" groups at !00 meters. he'd be calling bull$#it as well. and...

I've tried Ruger, Sako, Cooper, Remington, Marlin. i like screwing around and changing things up. always hoping i'd find that secret rifle that would outshoot the big dogs... always handicapping myself. and finally always coming back to the Anschutz. Not to say that a good score can't be shot with something else... i've shot 58/60 with the Cooper, Sako, and Anschutz but for consistent scores and, true, pride of ownership, i'll go with the Anschutz. That and Mark Pharr's workmanship.

Here's a target shot with my CZ. These are 5-shot groups at 50yds that I shot to demonstrate how to measure groups for another shooter. If you'll look at these groups, some are .25" or below. That most definitely does not mean that my CZ shoots .25" groups. At best, I could claim that it shoots .32" groups, as that's the average group size on that page. To be more truthful I could only claim that it was shooting .42" or better groups that particular day.



This target is way better than average for a CZ. It is nothing special for an Anschutz 1712 and is sub-par for a custom with an Anschutz 54 action and a custom barrel. Until you can show me 10 groups in a row that are all .25" or less center-to-center, or hell even average .25" or less I stick by my claim of bull$hit on your statement.

Leroy,

Look at the fine mess you have gotton us into here! LOL

Leroy forgot to mention that I (The Chister) sold him one of these rifles. The one I sold him was sent to a smith and:

Barrel cut and re-crowned
Chamber cut and barrel re threaded
set back and re-cut to 52d (???) specs
The trigger was done by the same smith using the sear from Brownells
Action was glass and pillar bedded
Alot of work on the stock to make it balance at 10lb2oz

Leroy stole this rifle from me at $300! LOL. Hell the guy I bought it from "needed the $" and I bought it just for the scope he had on it and sold it to Leroy for what I had into it.

My point? That rifle ( I know the other one he has taken from stock and built it up) costs around $400 new. Gunsmith work = MIN = $400. That rifle better damn shoot! LOL

Now, on to the larger point. With time and $, NOONE is saying the CZ's are not the best bang for the buck. peroid. Some of us choose to buy an Anschutz because we feel they get it right "out of the box". Some of us even choose to employ a gunsmith (The guy I bought your rifle from did) to help us get that nice warm fuzzy that says:

This is my Rifle
There are many
like it, but
this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend. It
is my life. I must master it, as I must master
my life.

Without me my rifle is useless. Without my
rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I
must shoot straighter than my enemy who
is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he
shoots me. I will.

Before God I swear this creed. My rifle and
myself are defenders of my country. We are
the masters of our enemy. We are the
saviours of my life. So be it .. . until there is no enemy
...
but peace. Amen."

good night ladies...




Private Pyle ....

I mean Chicken

We all know someone who carries a small group around with them. I don't know what that means to anything. If you have a gun with a smooth trigger and it will shoot around 1 1/4 minutes day in and day out, your gun is fine. All you need to do is practice the right things, not the wrong things.

If you have a 1 minute gun and a 4 minute wobble you will shoot 4 1/2 minute groups off hand.

If you have a 2 minute gun and a 4 minute wobble you will shoot 5 minute groups off hand.

If you have a 1 minute gun and a 8 minute wobble you will shoot 8 1/2 minute groups off hand.

You are the biggest factor of error, not your gun. You do need to have confidence that your gun will shoot where you point it.

All this arguing is completely unnecessary.
Everyone should know that the Sako Finnfire rules!! Hahahahaha!!!


Joaquin B.