How do you know if the rifles stock really fits the shooter? Do most of the folks here shoot the rifle the way it came or do most change the rifles LOP to make it fit. Is it advantageous to put some kind of thin pad on a 1712 for non slippage. I have an Anschutz 164 sporter that I have been shooting and the LOP seemed to me to be to short. I am hoping the 1712 will fit me better. It seems like I was always having to shoulder the rifle to high in order to attempt getting a cheek weld.

A good quick check for LOP is to place the butt in your folded elbow and see where the trigger finger falls in relation to the trigger. Proper fit should be able to reach the trigger to about the first joint, too long and you will not be able to reach the trigger, too short and your finger will extend past the first joint when in postiion.

Height of cheek piece is a personal feeling and has a lot to do with the length of your neck.

Mary

Thanks, I read that on another site and was going to check that when my 1712 gets here. I would think wearing a vest might help if the LOP was short. Not looking for an excuse to buy a vest, but noticed most do wear them and wearing one might help.

Innocent wrote:Height of cheek piece is a personal feeling and has a lot to do with the length of your neck.

Mary

Cheek height can also be based on ring height

I consider proper gun fit even more important than good bullets. Having a stock that fits will definately increase one's scores. LOP is important, but do not overlook the height of the cheek piece either as having your head upright and in a relaxed positon is desireable. A butt plate that does not slip is also very important and changing one is easy. Buy, build, or modify a stock to fit and you will be glad you did. I never worry about ruining the value of the gun by modifying it - the future owner can fix the gun any way they like!

Edgehit and Mary were talking about LOP. I have been asked about LOP. First and foremost, this is an area that requires some experimentation as to what feels right.

At a silhouette clinic years ago at Austin it was suggested that when the gun is mounted, your arm (elbow) should not be less than 90 degrees. Folks were taping empty ammo boxes to the end of the stock and teaching folks how to experiment with a longer LOP. I tried it and liked the 90 degree or more elbow rule.

BUT! Look at the 10m air rifle scene. They are at 45 degrees, I mean VERY closed elbows. How does one explain that? I'm buying a new stock and I'm at a loss as to how to specify LOP and trigger placement relative to the grip. I have not seen this covered and thought I would see what other folks suggest.

TIA!

The "proper" LOP is whatever you feel good with. My preferred length is longer than most rifles have off the rack, but shorter than the formulas say. My quick check is to grip the rifle in my right hand and lay it inside my forearm: The butt should come up just short of the inside of my elbow, but most are a couple of inches short.

So it's like everything else - your mileage may vary.

durant-
I find it interesting tii, the differences in styles that work best for different disciplines. Your air rifle position example reflects 3P type shooting correct, not air rifle silhouette?
I'm asking that as I find that I shoot silhouette better when I hold my elbow high (my upper arm/humerus) parallel to the floor. Interesting thing is when I shoot across the course Service Rifle, Ituck in close to my body and hold my elbow down to my side. I think my personal phenomenon has to do with wearing a hardback heavy shooting coat for Service Rifle, but "chicken winging" when shooting silhouette add to my stability.........

As to the LOP question, Innocent had it on the money for how I set my LOP.

Cheek height is easy-close your eyes and shoulder your rifle into firing position. Open your eyes. If you are looking under the scope, you need a higher cheekpiece, but it can't be higher than the centerline of the bore.

jud,
3/4P and international air rifle deal with different equipment in that the jacket vs. vest and clothing under the jacket are different. Not to mention the ability to adjust cheek weld and other fine machinists additions to the air rifle stocks as opposed to the simplicity (ha ha) of the silhouette rifle.

Having instructed for 30+ years I can say that few instructors put themselves in the position of the pupil, and look at the whole picture...ie any back /neck problems or natural differences in the body builds, as well as arthritis, etc and just simply teach what has worked for them.

Simply put the correct LOP is the length that allows the shooter to find the NPA (natural point of aim) quickest and uses the least amount of muscles to support the rifle while allowing for proper cheek weld.

The previously mentioned way of determining LOP is a common basic starting point, and can be expanded upon depending on the needs of the person trying to determine the correct LOP.

Mary (still Innocent)

...and as far as a pad to prevent slippage, yeah, it's a good idea. An easy (and light... remember weight is a factor) is a piece of non-skid tape attached to the original buttplate. Ace hardware, Lowe's, Home Depot.

CWS wrote:...and as far as a pad to prevent slippage, yeah, it's a good idea. An easy (and light... remember weight is a factor) is a piece of non-skid tape attached to the original buttplate. Ace hardware, Lowe's, Home Depot.

WalMart flip flops assorted colors , cut and shape to fit, cheap and enough for a retread when used up

A starting point for LOP using the described methods are fine for starters. What most shooters forget about is hand size. The reach from the palm swell to the shoe matters a lot and many fail to make this adjustment. My Izhmash 7-4 has an adjustable shoe and I moved it forward about 2 mm and it made a huge difference in my ability to squeeze the trigger and hold the rifle steady. I'm currently moving the swell backwards (towards the butt). The finger (pistol) grip to trigger measurement is also being stretched out a bit.

Wooden stocks are great since it's simple to grind them away and add wood to get a custom fit and experiment. My rifle is really ugly with gouges for fingers, bits of wood glued on, etc. If I think some change will help I get out the rasp/glue/basswood (easy to carve) and have at it.

In theory, when I'm finished with the mods I'll have a stock fit to me so it can be measured and have a decent looking stock to replace the patchwork action holder I have now.

Kevin6q,
You bring up a good point in that the LOP is just the start to a good fit. Just as the NPA is a start to a good shot.

Innocent Mary