on word of caution on the timney cz trigger.i was informed it renders the safty non functional. if so,it would also render the gun illegal .

i may be wrong.if so some could someone chime in, i would hate to cost anyone a sale in these times

dave

lots of rifles out there to start with... lots of excellent used rifles out there to start with as well. and given most folks throw away the stock and barrel of the 1700 series rifle to build it up you can start with a rem 541, 581, or a sako finnfire and end up with an arguably better rifle. I know everyone out there who is anyone is shooting them but the Anschutz aren't necessarily the be all end all of this game. they are pretty and have an excellent (reliable) trigger. the trigger is a big advantage but not something that can't be overcome. actually, folks are putting the Anschutz trigger on remingtons regularly now. the surgery is no longer experimental. one can hang a jewell trigger on a finnfire as well. no better single stage triggers out there. apologies but i just felt the need to be contrary for a moment. keep your eyes open grasshoppers... there are many roads to Rome.

as has been said many times before... no better .22 to start with than the one in your closet right now.

Last year I came into this game thinking I was a good shot. This year I know what a real good shot is: not me, at least not yet.

This opinion was based upon my being competitive at weekly 100yd/60pts-on-paper multi-position HP fun shoots put on by my Rod & Gun club.

Last Spring, at my first SB match, I qualified a 10/40 'B' class in hunter; and 16/40 'A' class in silhouette rifle. Not great scores that's for sure, but I concluded that 1 out of 4 of these tiny little buggers was encouraging first time out. I also heard and watched the AA and up shooters going "clink-clink-clink-miss-clink", or "miss-miss-miss-miss-clink" (lol). Some would get 5 in a row, great shots would sometimes hit 10 in a row. WOW.

My conclusion was that if I stuck to this game I could go from being a good shot to being a great shot. I instinctively knew it would take a lot of work and dedication, but there would be a lot of fun and friendly competition along the way.

I also noticed many older gentlemen doing really really well, and others, former Masters now in their late 70s or even 80s, shooting B scores and still having fun and enjoying the company of younger shooters. I saw a few young teens put up AA scores on their first or second match. What a sport!

At last years Canadian nationals, I won 1 gold and 2 silvers in three B matches, with ok scores. On some matches I did not even make my classification. It is cool that rank beginners can win something in our sport. I think the classification levels are an awesome way for shooters to sense that they are improving steadily, and there are rewards along the way. We need to make this abundantly clear to newcomers.

One of the benefits of this sport is that it makes better shots out of fair shots. Truth be told, compared to the run of the mill hunter/shooter, we are all marksmen and women.

Last weekend, I won gold in an 'A' class silhouette rifle match attended by folk from Western Canada and USA, with a 26/60 score on a windy day. Nothing fancy, but I was pleased with myself as I had recovered from a really bad start (with kind tips from other competitors). Best of all, I picked off my first 5-in-a-row animal (on turkeys !) without choking for a change. lol.

Here's how I define SB shooter ability by classification:

B class = a fair shot
A class = a decent shot
AA class = a good shot
AAA class = a great shot
Master on a good day = GOD is on your side.

Perhaps a good way to retain newcomers is for us to share with them how we started off lucky to hit 8 or 10/40, gradually but steadily working our way to 20 or 30/40.

Last advice I got was to lose the T-shirt and get myself a nice leather vest.

silhouette13 wrote:on word of caution on the timney cz trigger.i was informed it renders the safty non functional. if so,it would also render the gun illegal .

i may be wrong.if so some could someone chime in, i would hate to cost anyone a sale in these times

dave

That was definitely true of the first generation of Timney triggers for the CZ 452, but they're into a third revision and I'm told the problem is fixed. I have not tested one personally, but would like to.

When the safety of these rifles is part of the rear bolt assembly, how can the trigger affect it at all?

silhouette13 wrote:on word of caution on the timney cz trigger.i was informed it renders the safty non functional. if so,it would also render the gun illegal .

i may be wrong.if so some could someone chime in, i would hate to cost anyone a sale in these times

dave

_Shorty wrote:When the safety of these rifles is party of the rear bolt assembly, how can the trigger affect it at all?

Maybe someone knowledgeable will jump in here, but I believe the safety works by blocking the firing pin and the Timney sear does not place the firing pin in the right place.

Nice! I've been shooting this game since Jan '07 and I'm now AA in both classes, and I have a handful of 5-in-a-row pins on every animal *except* turkeys! Chickens x 5, pigs x 5, rams x 2, but those freakin' turkeys are glued down or something! Been several times where I'd get the first four turkeys and choke, argh! hehe

twofifty wrote:Best of all, I picked off my first 5-in-a-row animal (on turkeys !) without choking for a change. lol.

i got into this game because i wanted to become a better rifle shooter. i had a 10/22t in the safe and decided to head out. the rifle is all stock, trigger and all, has a nikon 3-9 with the fine crosshairs. i didnt have any zeros. i shot 19/60 that day and i was hooked. everyone was nice and i made some friends and asked a lot of questions. soberbiker let me check out his cz452 silhouette and it fit me a lot better. i had one for the next months match with a nikon 6-18, stock trigger, and had all my zeros. i shot 21 first time out with the cz. last weekend was my 7th match and i shot great, 36/60. i have $650 in the rifle, scope, brooks kit and mags. thats affordable and it performs great. it will usualy do 1" groups at 100 with wolf. i have never missed an animal because of the rifle. I shoot with many top shooters in our sport, and i believe they would shoot the same score with my cz or the 54's and 17's and all the other high end stuff. i am sure i might get 1 or 2 more with a better rifle due to the trigger and pharr stock, but for what i have into my rifle, it works. so in the end i have become a better rifle shooter, found a new shooting sport that i enjoy and love, meet some nice people and have a lot of fun. my goal is to make it to AA with the cz. it feels great to do well with "the cheap stuff" Scott

I just can't picture it, because of how the bolt is put together and how the safety operates. The safety is more or less a pin with a 'head' on it that, when rotated, physically gets in the way of the firing pin moving forward. I don't care what you do with the trigger, I don't see how it can possibly alter how the safety relates to the firing pin. Take a look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9eFW8rRkIs

BlauBear wrote:Maybe someone knowledgeable will jump in here, but I believe the safety works by blocking the firing pin and the Timney sear does not place the firing pin in the right place.

Scotty250, I sure can relate to your story. Both you and I were made to feel welcome, which made it more likely we'd stick around.

Newcomers do not necessarily realize from the get go (like scotty250 and I did) that a lowish score in SB is actually pretty good shooting, and that great shooting is but a few years away. Newcomers might benefit from having their expectations clarified by more experienced shooters.

If this game were easy, folk would not stick to it for decades like so many do.

Twofifty, i have told people the same thing. if it was easy, everyone would do it. its not easy and thats what makes it fun. my story goes on to highpower now. i have shot HP 2 times. the first time i shot 4!!! 4/40, it was very windy, cold and i got my zeros that morning on the steel. i was happy to hit ANY of them. 500 meters standing on your 2 feet is a long ways. last weekend i shot 13 for my second time out, again using zeros i got that morning shooting at the steel. i am going to try to get my actual zeros on paper before my next match. it took 2 people to help me a little to get me hooked on silhouette. we had a bunch of new people for the last SB match, i tried to talk to every one of them. my goal starting was to shoot 1 out of 5. that was a lofty goal, but i did it. i have talked to people that shot at camp perry in NRA highpower comp. and were among the top of the group, they all told me silhouette is a tough game.
Scott
ps - do you ride mx twofifty??

_Shorty wrote:I just can't picture it, because of how the bolt is put together and how the safety operates. The safety is more or less a pin with a 'head' on it that, when rotated, physically gets in the way of the firing pin moving forward. I don't care what you do with the trigger, I don't see how it can possibly alter how the safety relates to the firing pin. Take a look.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9eFW8rRkIs

BlauBear wrote:Maybe someone knowledgeable will jump in here, but I believe the safety works by blocking the firing pin and the Timney sear does not place the firing pin in the right place.

As Kitty's tag line used to say, "It is what it is". One of the first Timney triggers failed on my CZ American, Silhouette and Varmint, although the trigger itself was wonderful. Others reported problems passing the bump test, but that was never a problem in those three samples.

Chicken George sold several of them and then dropped the line. If I ever pick up another CZ (a used Varmint at the right price would tempt) I'll try another Timney for it, too.

I have one of the first gen Timney triggers on my CZ Varmint. Some people had problems, other didn't. The main issue with mine was when taking the safety from the "safe" position to the "fire" position, the rifle would fire if it had a round in the chamber.

I'm not intimately familiar with the design of the action, but I believe that basically, the sear would not catch the firing pin assembly when the lever was moved off the "safe" position.

I was able to get mine to work by filing slightly on the safety detent, and by adding some engagement to the sear adjustment. At the time this was going on, there was a lot of talk about it, particularly on Rimfirecentral. If you search the CZ archives there, you will find all the details.

The Varmint is now a "backup" rifle, as I ended up buying a 1712 FWT. If I had bought the Anschutz first, I could have saved myself about $500 on the purchase of the CZ, Brooks kit, Timney Trigger, and extra scope rings that I wouldn't have needed if I had bought the best and only cried once.

SteveM.

silhouette13 wrote: when i told my deer hunting buddys i was getting a cz for 400 they thought i was insane.and these were long time shooters.

Imagine the looks we get when we tell people the .177 caliber pellet guns we use cost from $600-$3000 oh and that doesn't include a scope/rings or incase of it being PCP the tank and adapter to fill it.

I got the CZ knowing the Annie was better of course. But I also am currently paying for my daughters college. If it wasn't for that I could have bought and equiped a few Annies from one semesters cost to me.

Personally I think the CZ is capable of shooting good scores and moving you up. I don't feel like it would limit anyone starting out by any means for the cost especially. When the day comes I get an Annie I will want it setup as a Standard Class rifle anyway so I will still need the CZ for hunter class.

Buy the time I am done tinkering with my CZ between the rifle, scope, rings, Boyds laminate stock and trigger work it will easily cost close to $1000+ for the rig ready to go to a match. For a starter gun to many people that will still be a large pill to swallow.

My first 3 matches I used a Remington 597 semi auto with a Tasco 3x9 so I agree anything you have will work and be fun while giving you the chance to figure out if you want to continue on without any expense to try. Then if you think its your cup of tea you can debate the CZ or str8 to Annie dilemma

Dee

Now it makes sense. Thanks.

Jetmugg wrote:I have one of the first gen Timney triggers on my CZ Varmint. Some people had problems, other didn't. The main issue with mine was when taking the safety from the "safe" position to the "fire" position, the rifle would fire if it had a round in the chamber.

I'm not intimately familiar with the design of the action, but I believe that basically, the sear would not catch the firing pin assembly when the lever was moved off the "safe" position.