silhouette13 wrote:jud seems to be highly regarded by some one else but me,(my wife thinks he is pointing me down a dark and expensive path)

He must be related to Kitty...

silhouette13:

Ayuh! All my teeth!
(Except for part of one incisor that left shortly after intercepting some opposite-direction knuckles and 3 third molars -- 'wisdom' teeth -- that my dentist suggested I have pulled.)

Strangely, it was not long after the wisdom teeth were removed that I began developing an interest in silhouette... LOL

Dave, BTW: If you know Maine, I'm even from up in "The County"!

Back in the mid 90's wasn't it Cooper that begged and pleaded to raise the hunter limit from 7.5 to 8.5 lbs because they couldn't make their rifle fit the standard? While they didn't get the big success they would have liked, I thank them every time I use my 8 lb 6 oz NS522.

Yikes. Maybe I should just stay away from the keyboard and just drive the mouse. Kevin, first, my apologies if I came across as condescending. To be honest, that is one of the things I think most people would never associate with me. But, with that, please accept my apology and do hope to see you this Sat at Pemi for Biathlon or Sun at Pioneer for Silhouette, any size animal!

My goal was mostly around trying to get back to the old ~shooters.com~ era where folks of all types (expert or novice) could ask innocent questions and get straight answers. That is where this whole MS started for me some 8 years ago when some guy by the handle of Nomad convinced me to drive 30 miles to a silhouette match. I had no idea what it was about, but over to Ft. Worth I went. A bunch of guys who to this day outshoot me with one hand tied behind their backs treated me like their long lost buddy. I liked it and I got bit by the bug having not held a gun or even owned a gun for over 30 years.

Today, I recall what these kind folks did for me and the friendships I have developed across the country. I'd like to do for others what they have done for me. So when folks like you, Handsome Dave, Bill, Ben, John....the list goes on, show some interest, I try to help. My problem, I might be in a position to share equipment but I am not in a position to give expert equipment advice. I know I don't know enough to dispense the ~shooters.com~ type advice for new aspiring shooters. So, my post was mostly to coax the Marv's, the Dave's the Nomad's etc out of the woodwork and give Handsome (and other lurking newbie

I know my true reward will be growing the sport with new shooters as I'm never going to be the match winner at the big events!

Jud,
You have lived long enough to know better than to say "never" in that context. Much of this game is in the mind. The biggest problem is that most of us don't mature enough to understand that until our bodies are at the point where they do not cooperate fully. The youngsters that do put it together have tremendous mentors and a willinginess to listen and follow the lead of those that have the experience...ie watch the bond/relationship between Sanchez/Tello, Rasmussen/Neihouse, Winstead/Winstead to name a few.
Mary

i AM handome, my name tag says so! i suspect jud, i will be competing WITH you at Pe Ell in master

best and warmest
hansome dave

This topic is special to me. When I was a kid and could not afford a good rifle I looked at Kimbers in magazines and said that is what I will buy when I "Grow Up":) So some years ago I did buy a beautiful Kimber and (since this is not a Kimber post) let me just say I was sooooooooo... disapointed (total crap)

SO I was determined not to have a dang Anschutz like everyone else. No sir not me. I wanted something darring and different. Something that would stand out on the rack at Winnsboro... SO I bought a Cooper.

My cooper was the model 36, with the composit stock and I was told a Lilja barrel. It was new in the box but I got it for a steal from a dealer who was so sick of Cooper service and problems that he just wanted rid of this last one. (why did this not bother me?)

So I will speed up. I found that you could not close the bolt the normal way or it would bind up. you had to pit you hand on a certain position to get it to close, it would not eject so it was shoot and shake or shoot and flick, when you adjust the trigger the safety stops working, it was fickle about ammo, and what it did like shot about 1/2" to 3/4" at 50 yards and all good silhouette guns will do that. (The one hole groups they ship with every gun are simple lies not even benchrest custom rifles with tuners shoot that good.)

So where is it now, The same place the Kimber is, long gone. I kept each of the a week, shot alot of amo, tried different scopes, different rests, and different shooters, cleaned them, retorqued them, tried them again....sold them on rimfire central.

Mark

PS the Kimber story is better and I wound up with two Kimbers over the past few years. Never kept one over a week....

BTW I now shoot a custom CZ, a SAKO finnfire, and (Yikes) I have 6 Anschutz...Love em, Love em, Love em.

I am still very sad that in this country we can not make a great .22 rifle. Kind of makes one doubt that whole moon landing thing...Hummm

2many7s wrote:...When I was a kid and could not afford a good rifle I looked at Kimbers in magazines and said that is what I will buy when I "Grow Up":) So some years ago I did buy a beautiful Kimber and (since this is not a Kimber post) let me just say I was sooooooooo... disapointed (total crap)

...SO I was determined not to have a dang Anschutz like everyone else. No sir not me. I wanted something darring and different. Something that would stand out on the rack at Winnsboro... SO I bought a Cooper.

...I am still very sad that in this country we can not make a great .22 rifle. Kind of makes one doubt that whole moon landing thing...Hummm

Sounds very reminiscent of my Remington 504 fixation. They can be made to shoot, but carry your toolkit everywhere.

Hello All,
Not hiding, just camping in a tent while attending the US Summer Biathlon Nationals in PA. Internet access was limited to poaching the local hotel and I think my reply should not be rushed and hopefully not misinterpreted again.

First off, I know Jud and he is one of the most helpful, enthusiastic and selfless shooters I have known. He has lent me his personal equipment so I can shoot while he sits on the sidelines missing the match. My reply was not a personal attack of Jud. One of my poached emails was a note off to him with an apology if I was out of line.

What surprised me about his post was how it came across, to me, as arrogant and condescending. Both of those adjectives do not fit the man. If all shooters were half and helpful as he, silo would be a hugely popular sport in the US.

As it is, silo is very unknown to most shooters. Anyone posting with an aire of elitism, myself included, should be called out.

Steelchickens is a public and worldwide accessible forum. Many beginners search around trying to find info on the sport they have just taken an interests in. If this novice is apprehensive about trying the sport and reads a post about no real shooters in the northeast or made to feel arriving at a match with an inferior rifle will get them the cold shoulder, they might never show up. The sport loses a potential shooter not to mention the potential bad mouthing by this lost shooter.

Just about every silhouette shooter I've met here in the northeast has been a "real shooter" in the sense they promote the sport and are very helpful. These northeast guys and gals have taken the time to work with my 4 and 7 year old kids teaching them the silo game. The kids shoot offhand from a rest with help from a coach. The kids are taught safe range procedure and how to listen to the match caller. They shoot at the 1/2 sized club targets and become all excited when some animal falls off the rail. Same holds true when my wife shows up at a match. She gets lots of help and is included in the game and enjoys shooting the 1/2 sized targets. Shooting the 1/5 smallbore she goes all donuts and who wants to head to matches and essentially put 40 rounds into the berm? Not many.

My and the family's first impression of silhouette was excellent and encouraging. The kids ask to shoot at the local range and enjoy attending the silo matches. They talk to other kids about shooting and have taken the edge off some of the misguided ideas these kids parents have about firearms. Since starting silo we have purchased two rifles. My kids invite other families to attend a local match and see how much fun it is. If the first impression my family received was that silo shooters are a group of elitist and arrogant pigs who look down on someone because they don't have the best gear, do you believe they would have this enthusiasm for the sport? Best guess is anyone would soon spend their discretionary time and money on any of the millions of activities available to them then with silhouette.

Southern New Hampshire is a New England hotbed of silo activity and I believe much of this is due to Jud and his enthusiasm for the sport. As a hot bed there are usually 20-30 people at any given match over the course of the day. This is not very many and one additional shooter ups the participation by 3-5% which is a huge gain for any activity.

If anyone wants to trash a person or locality don't take it up in a public forum; we all lose with the biggest loss going to the sport of silhouette. I do not believe Jud's original post was meant to be a talk down and I might have misinterpreted what he said or meant. Eventually people get to know each other and some friendly barbs are thrown or inside jokes develop this group of friends understands. To the first time viewer they can obviously come across as shots at the masses and can be interpreted as elitist. I hope the jokes and friendly barbs continue but lets all please understand that we're not all in on the joke and what we say might be misinterpreted.

Shoot safe and well, Kevin

sooooooo? how did you do at summer biathalon? i belive i know which guy you are .you shot air rifle right? and handed out some fiocci?

cheers
dave

quonset hut - in answer to your statement about Cooper needing the weight limit raised so their rifles would meet specs - actually it was Anschutz who needed the weight limits raised, the wood stocked 1700's will not make the 7- 1/2 weight limit when scoped. Coopers do not, and did not have a problem in that respect.

I saw many nice 1700's stocks literally butchered by having to open up the foreends and drilling holes in the butt and sometimes even after all of that they still would not make weight. That is why that Anschutz offered the 1700 FWT series, it could make the 7-1/2 lb limit when scoped.

drover wrote:quonset hut - in answer to your statement about Cooper needing the weight limit raised so their rifles would meet specs - actually it was Anschutz who needed the weight limits raised, the wood stocked 1700's will not make the 7- 1/2 weight limit when scoped. Coopers do not, and did not have a problem in that respect.

I saw many nice 1700's stocks literally butchered by having to open up the foreends and drilling holes in the butt and sometimes even after all of that they still would not make weight. That is why that Anschutz offered the 1700 FWT series, it could make the 7-1/2 lb limit when scoped.

This was after the 1700 FWT was out - I seem to remember the story was that whatever American company it was couldn't get a plastic stock to make weight either. When was the change fron 7.5 to 8.5 - 1995?

Maybe it was all BS and range talk. But I don't see why Anschutz would push the change when they had a product that fit, unless maybe the non-FWT guns were still over even with the a FWT stock replacement. But still, they made a product that fit, and the 1700 FWT was well established on the firing line when I started shooting in 1993.

I have been shooting silhouette for many years, I shot my first match in 1979 and was immediately hooked. Since I quite often end up as a jury member I have followed the many rule changes which have occurred over the years and the various other ups and downs of the sport.

The original 7-1/2 lb limit was to comply with the weight limit which was designated in metric (kilos I believe but I am not into metrics), the conversion from metric to american came out to 7-1/2 lbs. There were very few high end 22's that would make the weight without some wood removal, usually quite a bit had to be removed. I have never seen a wood stocked 1700 Anschutz which will make the 7-1/2 lb weight when fitted with a target type scope such as a 6.5x 20 Leupold unless it had quite a bit of wood removed and even then it is not always possible.

But, the real reason for the 1700 FWT was because the international silhouette rules still require the 7-1/2 lb weight rifle. The NRA rules were changed to 8-1/2 lbs because so very few quality 22's will make the 7-1/2 lb limit when scoped, among them of course are the wood stocked 1700's.

Any company, American or otherwise, could easily manufacture a rifle to make the 7-1/2 lb limit in exactly the same way Anchutz did, which is to go to a slightly shorter barrel and/or a light weight synthetic stock or even a lightweight wood stock. It is not rocket science, take a look at the size of the barrels some of the hunter class shooters are using in the Pharr stocks, by using a lightweight stock they are using barrels on hunter rifles much larger than the factory contour.

I honestly believe that you hit it on the head when you mentioned range BS, or perhaps it was some "error-net" information.