This thread has me lost. It was on track at first and now it has been erratically derailed. Where did the subject of military snipers come from?

I blame ifldned.

I have 24X with 1/2 minute dots on most of my rifles I use for competition. I am eligible to shoot with the seniors starting this year and my hold is not what it used to be but like Jerry said is not the hold as much as the trigger release what matters in off-hand silhouette shooting. I often said that if I could hold for one whole second inside the target I would not miss any and to the people that tell me that they can hold for a long time inside the target I ask them why do you miss any targets?

Jerry, AZ rifle: I want to thank you for the up to date statistics you delve out. I'm a old timer. I quit shooting in 1983 to got into racing motorcycles and cars that go over 194 mph. I'm just trying to catch up on what the new standards are for a fine rifleman or pistol shooter. I could shoot in the low 30's in 1983 and that was a good score. My weave at that time was about twice the area of the target, that's including the wind and I shot mostly on a gravel surface.
Innocent, you must be like those olympic gymnasts that train 10 hours a day and is not over 19 years of age. I would like to know your average score on a 40 target shoot. You can probably contort your body into a tripod. I couldn't dream of holding on a silhouette target for 4-8 seconds on target, for me silhouette shooting is like shooting skeet with a shotgun. The target is always moving and you have to lead the target to hit it.
I feel honored to make both of your acquittances and hope with your help to get up to speed on what is happenning in silhouette shooting today. Speaking for us old guys, I think I can still give you a run for your money no matter how good you are
ifldned

ifldned - your hold sounds a lot like mine!! It is more of a delicate balance of trigger control and anticipation. Here comes the target... here it comes... ok BANG!

trent, and bcloninger,
I didn't bring military snipers into the conversation because I'm a" gung ho "pro militarist. I'm merely noting that these men have their lives on the line and are not shooting for trophies or accolades. They use 14x scopes shooting targets out to 1000 yards with a bipod rest. I am a Vietnam and Iraq war protester who has his picture in some FBI data base...... What is the purpose of using a 36x scope when the recoil of your rifle won't even let you see the dust and dirt movement from the wind that your bullet provided?
ifldned

IFLDNED,

For me it has nothing to do with the dust/hit after the shot, I have a spotter to worry about that. For me I use 36x and it is to see the target more clearly.

Jerry

IFLDNED,
I am not an olympic shooter...just have a good stance that has worked well for me in the offhand position for 38 + years. What I no longer have is the trigger control, due to age...neck injury, body/mind not wanting to work together.

BTW welcome back to this game, you knew you couldn't stay away from the smell of burning powder.

Innocent Mary

Aim small - miss small.

I think that's the premise that has led to higher scope magnifications since the 80's. The Weaver T-10's and T-16's were the "go to" silhouette scopes back then, while 24X and 36X scopes were virtually unheard of on silhouette rifles.

However, over time, scope magnification has generally increased on the silhouette firing lines, as competitors use the magnification to focus on dimples, spots, or other features within the silhouette animals themselves. These targets don't move, they are set at pre-determined distances, there is no need for shooter concealment, and they typically don't pose any threat to the shooter. Military sniping technology really doesn't come into play.

IFLDNED - you asked about what scopes are being used by top competitors. As most of this thread shows, somewhere between 20X and 40X is where the bulk of top shooters prefer. Of course you are free to use whatever you like, and your rig from the 80's will most likely not hold you back.

All mine are 6.5x20 EFR Leopold’s. Had the 18x40EFR Premier boosted ones but found I was at 18 most of the time due to the wobble factor. I now shoot between 12 and 20 power, depending on the day and how steady I am. What I find with the higher power is I spend more time chasing the dot and trying to correct the wobble, when on the lower power, you still have the wobble/movement, but you don't notice it as much and not try to correct it which ultimately ends up in causing you to jerk the trigger.

I wish Leupold would make a 12 - 25X EFR as that would be ideal.

FWIW - Only to try and add to the derailing of this post... I thought Mil 'Snipers' use fixed power scope due to the usage of a mil-dot reticle?

by ifldned on Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:51 pm

Innocent, you must be like those olympic gymnasts that train 10 hours a day and is not over 19 years of age. I would like to know your average score on a 40 target shoot.

She is OLD and a good shot.

George,
The rifle currently in use by the Army snipers wears a Leupold variable with the M2 turrets (1/2 moa adjustments). They just set to the appropriate power for ranging.

All,
Using the sniper as a comparator is pretty ridiculous. Fieldcraft is far more important to a sniper than is marksmanship.
Don't interpret that wrongly: They train hard and are very good, but their emphasis is on a different area. Offhand is, for snipers, of very limited use.

FWIW, if Cathy Winstead/Severin can 'get by' with around 24X then I'd guess that more than that is really useful to very, very few...lol

She is OLD and a good shot

FWIW Jerry, considering I intend to live to be a 100 I'm not middle aged yet, and only a mediocre shot. I just have fun while I shoot.
As for power that I shoot having the 18X40's mostly (there are some 6.5X20's in my collection) I tend to shoot around 24 to 28 on bright days and down to 18 on overcast days. I will if conditions are right take it up to the 40 just to humble myself on wobble.

Innocent

When I used to shoot alot in the late seventies and early eighties we didn't have spotters, no wind flags, and the other day I noticed a silhouette shooter giving lessons on You Tube wearing something that resembles a shooting jacket,"no jackets"! I'd feel the wind on my face and the breeze against my clothing, look for high grass or a bush at two places down range get a wind gauge, watch the dirt kick up from another shooter to get the wind effect down range and raise my rifle.
You people that shoot 36x scopes and above face the same dilemma that Harley Davidson riders do when they come out of a watering hole. You swing open the doors, see a long line of bikes,{in your case,chickens} that all look the same and think ......."which one is mine?"
I've learned alot from all of your opinions. I don't want you to think I'm a old fogey set in his ways that never listens to anybody. As a matter of fact I just came back from a Crossroads of the West gun show yesterday. Bought a 12-42x nightforce scope. The darn thing has a
lit reticle that you can adjust the intensity of the light or just shut it off. Who would have ever thought of that ?
As a matter of fact, I'm going to the range to try it out right now.
ifldned