LH2,

1710's do hold there value, but sometimes life is not so kind and you have to part with your toys fast, why do you think Jettmugg said it would go fast, if it was not a heavy barrel, it would have been mine for a $1000 last week, and I need another annie 1710 or 1712 like I need a lesson on hurricanes and looters. As I said before I own a 77/22 built by Bobby Pitchford when he was with Briley, Mcmillian anschutz rollover cheek stock same as a 1710 , walther barrel, all the fix'ens a one off due to Dick at mcmillian will not do that stock again for a 77/22. And I still shoot an annie.
1710 is a single stage trigger and around a 24in barrel
1712 is a two stage trigger and around a 22in barrel
Longer barrel more front heavy, single or two stage trigger, personnal preferences, you can change the triggers out, fits both guns, so it all comes down to frontend weight, and you can even replace the barrel, just a tad more difficult than a trigger.

Food for thought:

The chicken has an intrest in breakfast, where as the pig is pretty committed.

Good to know triggers are interchangeable. The 1712 sounds perfect.

Is the McMillan shaped the same as factory wood? Champion's Choice has tan and grey, just color choice I guess.

The guy selling the 1710 said he just likes to buy rifles, see what they'll do, and sell them. He's bought it new in May 2005.

LH2,

McMillian is shaped the same, thought there was a black one also, That 1710 will be to heavy to make the weight class, now if you bought it ordered a Pharr stock or McMillian then had all the work done as Nomad mentioned it might work, IMHO get a 1712 wood or mac stock and shot it till you have a very strong idea of what you like, then persue that, just my .02 cents

So the 54 action is used on both the 1710/1712. The difference is barrel diameter & length, and sometimes stock material. I got it.

Here's what the gentleman at Champion's Choice had to say via e-mail:

(stk. #1712B) is a FWT .22 L.R. w/McMillan Black graphite stock that we pillar bed,using the 1710 barrel/action. (stk. #1712TG) is the same barreled/action in a McMillan Tan/Green Fiberglass stock that we pillar bed the 1710 barrel/action in. Either one of the 1712 FWTs can be supplied w/two stage trigger if you want it.

Do most people prefer the 2-stage trigger for silo? Either trigger type is easily adjustable for pull weight?

LH2 The action on the 1712 is what is called a sporterized 54 action. It is a 54 action but it is different from the 54 action on the "Heavy" Guns (Standard Category 10 lb. 2 oz.) Do not let this bother you. If you buy a 1712 You will be able to use it in both Hunter and Standard Categories. Thus you will get twice as much trigger time at a match for less than half the price. I say less than half the price because the 54.18's are far more expensive. 1500 to 1800. On the current price I am not sure. Some, like me eventually decided to shoot a hunter gun in both categories and for me it paid off. "Beware of the man with one gun" Buying the 1712 is the way to go at least to get you started. It seems like you have the funds so don't go cheap on ammo, buy quality. AS far as the stock and the trigger ..both are Preferences that you can modify later so don't worry. I used a Single stage and switched to the 2 stage as soon as they cam out. I liked them a lot some don't. I switched from the original stock to Mark Pharrs stock and it was a vast improvement because I feel the original is a little small. But both of these are personal preferences. Buy the gun don't look back. Go practice and have fun. You will be amazed at how much you will learn not only about shooting but about yourself. You will meet a lot of good people along the way, and have a lot of fun......oh and the shooting could be fun too....Bill R

Is Champion's Choice in Tennessee a good place to buy from?

I can't find 1712's locally.

If you want the Mcmillan stock on the gun. instead of wood, Champions Choice may be the best or least expensive way to get it done. Personally I like the look of wood better but not for a competition gun. Wood can shift to much in changing weather conditions, where the composite stocks are virtually neutral. The difference between the Black stock and the tan & green stock that CC offers is that the Black stock has a pebbled finish to it and the Tan & Green stock is smooth. Yet another personal prefernce. I owned both and liked the T&G better. It was much nicer on those sunny days when the gun rack was not under cover at some ranges, because that black stock can warm up some in direct sun light on a hot summer day. Some shooters want the pebbled finish some like the smooth finsh. This is no different than anything else in life, which color, size, model, make do you like. Buy the best you can afford (Gun, scope, ammo & mounts). Watch the best shooters you see and talk to them most will be more than willing to help you out. Don't be afraid to experiment and in no time you will be running 10-in-a-rows and expecting it instead of hoping for it. Bill R

Thanks Bill R. I think I'm going to order the tan/green McMillan 1712 from CC.

As far as sighting it in, do I need something to mechanically hold the rifle in place? My range has sandbags and some fabricated rests that are maybe 6" tall, that's it. Should I sight in @ 25 yds? (I guess meters is a bit farther).

What kind of rings do I need to mount the scope, anything in particular?

I've heard of 'boresighting' is this something I should look into having done?

This is kindof overwhelming.

You will want to sight in using sandbags or some sort of rest. It does not need to be fancy- but you need to be comfortable so you can take your time. A solid (non wobbly) bench is more important in my opinion. Rest the middle of the fore end of the gun on the rest- not your hand- and do not let the barel itself touch anything.

You will want to be sighted in at each of the animal distances-

-----------------Meters-------------yards--------------------feet----in
Chickens---------40----------------43.75--------------------131 ---2 13/16

Pigs----------------60----------------65.6 --------------------196-----10 3/16

Turkeys ------------77 -------------- 84.2---------------------252------7 1/2

Rams--------------100----------------109.4---------------------328------1

This is why you want target type turrets on the scope. It is possible to "hold over" or under- but there is a reason you do not see many do it that way.

Mounting of the scope is very important. Most people will simply get rings of the height they want and mount the scope. You can also have rings made to your specifications- but your money will be better spend elsewhere. I would suggest getting a pair of the BKL rings- or the Burris Signature rings (and spend the extra money for a set of the offset inserts.)

The simple way to boresight is to take the bolt out of the gun, look down the bore and look for something distinctive in the middle of the circle you see. Without moving the gun you then adjust the crosshairs to the same thing you were seeing. Then go back and double check. This will get you close. You can do this at home- but doing it inside will cause elevation problems at the range as the distance is too short. Start at the range with a close distance and good backstop, and then work your way back in distance.

If you want to be more (very?) particular- before mounting the scope you find its "center". What I do is take a small cardboard box and cut two V notches in it so the scope rests in them but can be spun. You then adjust the elevation and then the windage so the dot or crosshairs stay the the same place. The only way to know this is to be able to look at something at the time. It is best to have the cap on the the knob you are not adusting at the time. It can get rather confusing otherwise
Centering the scope ensures you are making your adjustments starting from the middle of the scope- where it will be optically the best and the adjustments most consistent.
After the sope is "centered" mount it on the gun- but do NOT bore sight it. Take it to the range and shoot it. What you want to do is shim the scope mounting so the "centered" scope corresponds with where the bullets hit at the turkey distance. You use the turkey distance as it is close to the center of the total adustment range you will use going from chickens to turkeys. You will not get it exact- but get it with in several "animals" if possible. The Burris Signature rings are not an ideal fit on the dovetail- but they will work. Their big advantace is that by using the offset inserts in the right combination you can make significant changes in elevation and/or windage. When Burris first came out with these they came with a set of the offset rings and a chart showing MOA changes for different combinations. Now you have the buy the offset rings- and the information they provide is not as complete. My guess is it was too complicated for for their average customer.

The last suggestion I have is to go to this web site and print out targets:
http://www.curragh.com/silhouette/targe ... _rifle.pdf
They have an MOA grid on the background- which is very helpful to learn how many "clicks" you need to get sighted in.

The other web site I would suggest is:
http://www.incompetech.com/beta/plainGraphPaper/
This site allows you to design your own graph paper and print it out. I have printed out graph paper sized to be 1 MOA for the different distances. Again- very handy for sighting in. The program they have wants to know the lines per inch for the distances. I have calculated those out below

------------------1 MOA--------- lines/inch
Chicken--------0.45810----------2.183
Pig--------------0.68714----------1.455
Turkey----------0.882------------1.134
Rams------------1.1452----------0.873

And you thought it was overwhelming before this post

The main thing is to get set up and go shoot and have fun. I would not worry about the "centering" at this point unless you find you do not have enough adjustment range in the scope. In that case I would first try reversing the mounts, front to rear, unless you have the burris Signature rings.

LH2 I would use the Burris posi align Signature rings. I like them even though they are heavy. With the gun you are talking about you could put a 18-40 Leupold with the sunshade and still have weight to spare in the Hunter Category. You can use the inserts as eelater discussed to optically center the scope. windage set up is critical. You don't want it to change as you go from chicken to Ram. When you first start setting up the scope for settings just work on The chicken and ram to make sure you trust the windage setting. If it changes then you can use the rings to try to correct the problem. If you put a Med set of Rings on the gun and cant the scope down .015" toward the front you should be ok. It should put you close to the middle of the scopes adjustment. If not just adjust the shims accordingly. Bill R

or... you could spend the money on quality rings that are light weight, well built, and are designed to center your scope without shims. Metalhead makes the best rings available and they are well worth the money. just another man's opinion.
dave