Savage MKII vs CZ 425

[reklaus]

I have been lurking here for a few weeks and notice that the CZ is a favorite. Have any of you given the newer Savage MKII's with the Accutrigger a serious work out? How do they compare?
Thanks
R.E. Klaus

[_Shorty]

I had one before I got my CZ 453 Varmint, which I'm very happy with. The AccuTrigger ain't too bad. The rest of the gun was horrible. Actually, I had three of them before the CZ. One purchased, two warranty replacements, all bad. Three returns and a refund later, I bought the CZ. Skip Savage rimfires.

[BlauBear]

The pecking order really is CZ, Weatherby XXII, and then Anschutz 1710/1712. I've paid my dues, literally, trying to make others work and there really aren't any to recommend, although I'm just about stubborn enough to keep trying. Just remember that a rifle that's accurate to 40 meters may fall apart before 100, a good plinker may not hold up to even part of a silhouette season and changing rifles in the middle of a season is very disruptive.

[dave imas]

I'm sure there are more but I'll just mention two... Sako Finnfire and Remington 541/581... while no longer in production, they can be had used for reasonable prices. both have a much faster locktime than most if not all other .22 actions and can be competitively accurate. I just replaced my Anschutz 1808 with a Sako and am much happier. There are quite a few prominent shooters on the west coast using the remington actions with great success.

[BlauBear]

Yep - I always forget about rifles that are out of production!

[Innocent]

A rifle out of production that is also used is the Winchester 52 both the older lighter barreled "B" models and the Japanese remake version, in which there are several that were done under the Browning name.

I have even seen some of the heavier barrels used but they were cut down to reduce the weight.

Mary

[durant7]

I think we should nominate an objective soul...if there is one in this group Nomad? ....to write a sticky on newbie gun options.

There has been a lot of good info written, just not sure how to condense it all into something that is a one stop shop. When folks ask me....I try to break it into chunks.

Chunk one. The scope. Can be used on anything and the good glass tends to hold value and due to lack of FFL requirements, the market is fairly liquid with eBay and other online options. Canidates are the KT-15, Bushnell 4000/4200 series, Japan Tasco's, Sightrons, Weaver V16...or buy a Leupold 6.5-20 with target knobs and know that you are done with scope envy. Expect to spend $150-500 for a scope.

Chunk two. The gun. The era of a $175 NS-522 starter gun is over sadly. It made it a real short discussion. I start by telling them they have to decide if they are willing to shoot what they own year 1. RH or LH based on eye dominance? In production, out of production?

LH in production
CZ American
?

RH in production
CZ American/Varmit...and other variants
?

LH out of production
Rem 581
Kimber 82
?

RH out of production (price group)
Win 52 sporter (med)
NS522 (low)
Kimber 82 (Oregon) (med/high)
Rem 541 (med)
Rem 581 (low)

Chunk 3. Match fees, ammo and travel budget. I tell new shooters that to fully enjoy and experience the sport, you have to have some money left over to travel to events. To me, if you spend money on equipment, you need to go USE it. In fact, it might be better to shoot what you own even if sub optimal because at mid sized to big matches you can LEARN through talking, trying, listening to others. Not to mention, beginer gear often shows up for sale. So, put a scope on Dad's old Marlin/Remington/Mossberg and go shoot to learn, not to win.

Chunk 4. Join the NRA, buy a book. Get a subscription to ShootingsportsUSA, join an active silhouette club and help it grow.

Thoughts?


Consider the above as a draft. Simply I'm not that knowledgable. But, with this kind of primer, it might help newbies get grounded faster.

[Ramslammer]

G'Day All
Very good thoughts. I have a 1712fwt which I like but I recommend CZ's to new shooters as they have been in Australia for over 50 years and I personally haven't seen a bad one. No doubt there may be one or two out there but generally they are a good rifle. With the money they save I tell them to buy the best scope they can afford as this (especially if it's a 6.5-20EFR) can be a lifetime purchase. The EFR is great as it has all the features we desire.
Chunk 3 is probably the best advise. If a shooter goes to a major they will learn more in two days than in a year stumbling along by themselves. Here in Australia there wouldn't be a shooter who wouldn't happily share tips, info, etc with a new shooter. As I beleive is the case anywhere in the world amonst the silhouette fraternity, clearly displayed by this forums members.
Also going to big matches will help settle a shooter. Their first time will be scary but once they are put at ease by other shooters they can enjoy the sport at a level way beyond club shoots. For us here in Tasmania we have to travel over Bass Strait to attend the Nationals and to shoot centerfire which incures a large expense but each year we try to take new shooters with us to the Nationals, with some of us travelling over numerous times a year to go to State and regional titles.
Just what I reckon!!!
Juddy

[reklaus]

Thanks for the input. I was wondering specifically about the Savage as I had an non-Accutrigger model that I thought shot better than the 10/22 I have now, except for the very poor trigger.

Consider the question answered.

Thanks again to all.

R.E. Klaus

[wasa43]

I used a bottom of the line Savage Mark II to take 3rd place AA Hunter class at the Calofirnia State Smallbore Championships.

It is a lot of gun for the money, and the only problem I ever had with it was that the safety would sometimes engage when the bolt was cycled. Easily cured, if you are really on a budget, check one out.

Plenty accurate for our game, and I put about 4000 rounds through mine with only the problem with the safety.

Chris C

[scotty250]

i have been shooting silhouette for about a year now. i first showed up with a stock 1022t and shot well, 19/60. i bought a CZ silhouette 452 for the next match and shot a 21/60. now i just shot a 39/60 last weekend with the same gun and have made it to the AA class. i JUST bought a savage MK II to use as a standard class gun. i have yet to shoot it but i have taken a good look at it. its build quality is not as good as the CZ but i have seen them shoot great groups out to 100m. I am kicking arround the idea of selling the savage and putting a high quality aftermarket barrel on the CZ and a upgrade on the scope. i shoot the nikon buckmaster 6-18 with crosshairs!!! its very bright, clear and has exelent contrast. i like the look and feel of this scope over the T24 i shoot on my HP gun. i am going to buy a Leopold 25x silhouette model and plan on putting those on all future guns as well. Scopes can make a big difference. I am torn on my buy of the savage. i guess i will take it and shoot a few groups with it and see how it shoots. i am looking to get 3/4" groups or better out if it. my CZ shoots 1" with wolf or sk. my cz has been great, put in the brooks trigger kit for $15 and shot it. the cz mags are a little expensive and the scope rings from cz are too. the mags on the savage are CHEAP and feel like it. the mag latch on my cz is plastic but it works great. the mag latch on the savage is metal and it sucks, hard to get the mags in correctly and back out again. savage will take almost any scope mount. i would have taken the savage out by now but i dont have any extra quality scopes to test with. Wow, long post =)
Scott

[Jason]

FYI.. the BKL 257A or 257H-A rings work just fine on the CZ 452 Silhouette or Varmint models. You don't need to spend the extra money for the CZ rings. I had a set of them and now my 452 Varmint has the BKL rings on it, as they seem to be both better and lighter. As much as I love my CZ, I wouldn't spend the money to put a high quality after market barrel on it. The trigger and action just isn't good enough, even with the Timney trigger. I would advise you to shoo the CZ as is and practice all you can. Then you can sell the Savage, get a good scope that will transfer to whatever gun you decide to upgrade to in the future should you want to upgrade from the CZ, and practice some more.

[BlauBear]

As much as I love my CZ, I wouldn't spend the money to put a high quality after market barrel on it. The trigger and action just isn't good enough, even with the Timney trigger. I would advise you to shoo the CZ as is and practice all you can. Then you can sell the Savage, get a good scope that will transfer to whatever gun you decide to upgrade to in the future should you want to upgrade from the CZ, and practice some more.

It seems that the major reason for replacing a good, accurate barrel is to change a rifle's balance. After market barrels are more accurate, but the improvement is marginal compared to what you can gain from practice, so unless you want a nose heavy rifle keep the factory barrel.

[dwl]

Just bought a Savage MK I Y for Junior. Now hold yer horses! I wouda bought a CZ Scout but none were to be found in the Northern Ute Territory. It was Junior's birthday and I wanted some thing that would fit him. I brought the Savage home and popped a Bushnell Sportview 4X on it that was layin around since it had click adjustments that might work for silhouettes. I was pleasantly surprised and it turned out single hole groups at 25 yards. Really.

Junior shot it Saturday at the match and shot a 15 and a 19....off a rest. Come on, he's little but at least he took 1st Junior Bench Rest Smallbore. He was kinda proud. Felt like he had to tell everystranger he met how he's goin' to shooting matches with Dad.

It's not a bad gun for a kid to start with, one shot at a time and a decent trigger. In fact, the trigger is better than my CZ Silhouette. Now we just got to teach Junior to stand up.

As a throw back to earlier remarks on this thread, I picked up a Winchester 52B. She appears to have been a heavy barrel, single shot target model earlier in life but the barrel was reprofiled and the action reblued and placed in a sporter stock. Kind of felt sorry for the old girl seein' as she needed a place to stay so I up and took her home. My, oh my! Dressed her stock with some stock oil, treated her to some nice Eley Club EPS, held her and gently stroked her Canjar trigger and she gave me one ragged hole at 25 yards and another no bigger than 3/10ths edge to edge at 50! Them older gals, they sure know somethin'.

dwl

[Innocent]

Them older gals, they sure know somethin'

Dave,
I suppose you expect a comment from me. Hmm my baby is 18 now, and I guess I am older than the Dawg and El Puma so....that makes me old enought to know better but young enpugh to not care, right guys. I could have told you any day that the old 52's shoot good groups, 'specially with a canjar, but I still like the Keynon triggers better.

GIve us time will have junior shooting standin' and I'm sure he's figured out already that shootin with Dad beats any day around a couple teenage sisters and Mom. Look forward to shootin' with the youngster and I'm sure he'll do fine.

Innocent