Why is this rifle not legal for a standard smallbore rifle?

The rule is:

(d) Stock: The stock must be traditionally styled and may not be bent and/or twisted so as to deviate from
conventional configurations such as factory rifle stocks or silhouette stocks as manufactured by Fajen,
McMillan, H-S Precision, and others. The forend, including the trigger guard mounts and screws, shall not
exceed 2 1/4 inches wide, and 2 1/4 inches deep measured from the centerline of the bore. Magazines do
not have to conform to stock measurements but those that extend below the stock line may not be used as
support as per Rule 3.I(h) and 3.14. The forend shall extend a minimum of 8 inches forward of the forward
edge of the receiver ring. The comb shall not extend above the centerline of the bore, but Monte Carlo roll
may rise 1/2 inch on the off side. The toe of the stock including buttplate or recoil pad shall be no more
than 7 inches below the centerline of the bore. Buttplate or recoil pad may not extend below the lower line
of the stock.

(e) Attachments which do not cause any portion of the rifle to exceed the weight or dimensions as listed
herein are permitted provided they do not extend past the end of the barrel. Sighting devices are not
considered "attachments".

Assuming the stock is adjusted to meet the specifications (less than 2-1/4 in wide and deep, comb centerline of the bore, toe less than 7 inches, etc.), and the overall weight is less than 10.2 lbs, what part of that rule makes this rifle illegal and why? Is it the first sentence of the rule? What is a conventional configuration? I have always thought that adjustible stocks were illegal, but I dont read that in the rule.

Dustin

The hooked buttplate would DQ it if nothing else does.... seems like there is a 1/2" depth limit on the curve of buttplates and/or pads. The palm rest extending below the trigger guard would get it bounced, too. As long as the bloop tube doesn't run out more than 30" from the action, it would pass. Conventional? Who wants to argue that point... If an 1808EDS stock is conventional, I guess a case could be made for this one... but I don't think I would.

CWS wrote:The hooked buttplate would DQ it if nothing else does.... seems like there is a 1/2" depth limit on the curve of buttplates and/or pads. The palm rest extending below the trigger guard would get it bounced, too. As long as the bloop tube doesn't run out more than 30" from the action, it would pass. Conventional? Who wants to argue that point... If an 1808EDS stock is conventional, I guess a case could be made for this one... but I don't think I would.

These rules prohibit it:

3.14 Palm Rest - A palm rest may not be used. A palm rest is any attachment or extension below the forearm
which aids the normal hand grip and support of the rifle by the forward hand/arm.

3.15 Buttplates and Cheekpieces - A butt or buttplate having a curved rear surface in which the depth of the
curve exceeds 1/2 inch when measured from a straight line drawn from the top to the bottom of the buttplate is
prohibited. Buttplates must be centered. Adjustable cheek pieces must be fixed and sealed in place. See 3.4(f)
regarding Black Powder Cartridge Rifle. Rule 3.15 does not apply to Target or Open class Air Rifles.

I had not noticed those rules.

Dustin

In the spirit of the sport, as originally constituted--what part of hunting rifle is unfathomable?

J.M.Cartwright wrote:In the spirit of the sport, as originally constituted--what part of hunting rifle is unfathomable?

What?

Dustin

I would think it would work if you removed the palm rest, the sling/hand stop and made the butt plate meet the 1/2" depth rule. Seems like it would be tough to get it to make weight though. As long as it meets the dimensional specifications and you "seal" the adjustable cheek piece and butt plate.

Be welcome at my match, with the notation match results "non conforming rifle" No slam forms either. We let about any safe .22 shoot first few times someone shows up. I have used my old Super Match 54 with a T 16 few times filling in empty slot one or two banks between match paperwork. Throw all the rules out that rifle is what you would come up with.

Serious shooter using a free rifle trying to make the rule, add a scope it's over weight. Use the Irons he's not going to hit the critters.

Boats

There should be a Hunter class and an unlimited class. The rules on the standard class make the rifles too close to have a real advantage in shooting two rifles.

I would petition the committee but my patience in dealing with Greg Connor is too thin.

Dustin

As long as it fits in a jig, and makes weight it should be legal. Since the hunter class really looks like the standard class, standard class should be different. That 2700 FWB rifle is legal in the air rifle configuration, so the same frame should be acceptable for smallbore. Silhouette is a game of custom rifles. I don't see anything wrong with having top of the line custom equipment, so pretending a 510 remington and a 40 dollar scope is the norm is silly. This is a game of high priced Anschutz rifles that often see a gunsmith for even more refinement. Ghetto now is a 1800 dollar Anschutz 1710 with a single stage trigger and a 300 dollar scope that has not been glass bedded. I don't see the FWB 2700 or FWB 700 air rifle as being more exotic than a 54MSR in a pharr stock with a kreiger barrel for hunter.

I would petition the committee but my patience in dealing with Greg Connor is too thin.

LOL, well now lets just have a nice cup of tea and come up with some new rules.

Innocent

Loose Hunter rule is the problem, lets go back to factory stock hunter rifles, let the hot rodders have it out in standard class. Wait, we did that, Chin gun which was outlawed.

Don't give Greg Connor more power than he has, Silhouette committe makes the rules not Greg Connor. His authority over equipment is when he is match director no were else.

Boats

I am with Boats. I think we should get back to a "stock" gun. I know if I had shown up at a match and everyone had wild colored fiberglass stocks and stainless aftermarket barrels etc etc etc I would have concluded the sport was too rich for my blood and never returned. I think in our lust for the newest "Frankenhunter" mod we are unwittingly suffocating our sport in the long run. We go through a lot of new folks but they don't stay around for long.

I am a greenhorn to the sport even after 12 years. Maybe we, the shooting community should develop a "spec gun" and "spec ammo" similar to SCCA so the sport becomes a shooter sport and not an equipment sport? I have been tempted to have a "barn gun" class with nothing more than 9x scope and Federal Lightning. How did a group of shooters get Cowboy off the ground? Should we as shooters be looking to create a new "spec hunter" class and trial it for a few years and then present to the Silhouette committee? That is the only way we can get new shooters into the fold IMO. Many a CZ shooter has tried and left for all the wrong reasons.

JD in NH

The 'equipment race' is a bunch of crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Our "stock" SB hunter guns are capable of shooting sub minute groups with expensive ammo and minute groups with not so expensive ammo. For what? Most of us are lucky to hold 4 or 5 minutes. It is the loose nut benind the scope that determines winning or not.

I will agree the custom rifles are not any advantage compared to a factory stock Anschutz Hunter. However the Hunter Rifle changes dozen years ago did put a lot of rifles out of business. I had a Stock Kimber 82 that had to use a light Wever KT 15 to make weight and was competitive in AAA. Number of my Friends shot Remingtons and did well. Rule changed weight went up Anschutz built a rifle just for the new hunter Class. I have a 1712 and it will shoot higher scores than my old Kimber, everything is just a bit better, not a lot, but enough to make a difference, weight and trigger mostly, roll over comb too. New shooters see my expensive outfit and no doubt are discouraged. I felt the same way shooting the Kimber against guys that were equal ablity with rifles built to the new rule.

It is what it is and not likely to change. However anybody thinks the standard rifle is going to open up is probably wrong.

Baots

durant7 wrote: How did a group of shooters get Cowboy off the ground? Should we as shooters be looking to create a new "spec hunter" class and trial it for a few years and then present to the Silhouette committee? That is the only way we can get new shooters into the fold IMO. Many a CZ shooter has tried and left for all the wrong reasons.

JD in NH

Seems like for many years a few groups in different parts of the nation had come up with their own version of the Cowboy Lever Action game, the largest one was in Raton, NM. A couple of members of the Silhouette Committee were able to convince their chairman to sanction Cowboy matches because they thought it could become popular in a very short time since it did not require special or expensive equipment. The NRA ended up adopting the Raton, NM group rules and so far we have been able to make progress as far as attendance to Nationals and the number of local matches which takes up five pages of the NRA's USA Shooting Sports digital edition.

I have been shooting SB since it began in 1978 and since we did not have any silhouette rifles at that time (I started shooting SB with a Rem 581 that I bought for $35 at the Grant Boys store) people would show up to the matches with any .22 they owned and pretty soon some of them put rifles together that resembled the HP rifles they were already shooting until Anschutz started making their 54MS and 64MS.

In my opinion the sport is too far gone to start over with inexpensive rifles at least I do not think that any of the hard core shooters (the kind that go to State, Nats, Pe Ell and Winnsboro) would be interested. Maybe if a new class for new shooters was started using the 3/8 size pistol targets, inexpensive rifles/ammo and low magnification scopes of no more than 4X. I could see that if such match was offered a lot of shooters that own such equipment would be interested in trying SB silhouette. One of the handgun silhouette clubs in my area let shooters use SB rifles at 1/5 and 3/8 size targets, most of the shooters choose to shoot the larger ones and very few of them have expensive silhouette rifles. They even have a game were they shoot 20 targets (5 of each at different distances) with semi auto rifles in two minutes. They also have a long range match they shoot prone at 1/5 size targets from 50 to 200 meters. The possibilities are endless but the idea has to spread to different parts of the country like any of the other of the Silhouette shooting sports we are practicing today.