Hard to close bolt on CCI

22 Long Rifle ammo is finicky. Tell us all about it here.
Tancred
B Poster
B Poster
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:42 am
Location: Sweet Home...

Hard to close bolt on CCI

Post by Tancred »

Should I be concerned that it is very hard to close the bolt on CCI. Should I not use this round?

thanks,

Tancred
topclass
A Poster
A Poster
Posts: 212
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:06 am
Location: Central Texas

Re: Hard to close bolt on CCI

Post by topclass »

what are you using it in? I use it in semi-auto pistols, revolvers and rifles and have not had any problems.
lone ringer
Master Poster
Master Poster
Posts: 1082
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 9:33 am
Location: CA

Re: Hard to close bolt on CCI

Post by lone ringer »

For the most part CCI standar velocity has been hard to chamber in rifles with match chambers and that has happened to me through out the years with different lots from different years. On the other hand works great on rifles like the Anschutz sporters with factory barrels.
Tancred
B Poster
B Poster
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:42 am
Location: Sweet Home...

Re: Hard to close bolt on CCI

Post by Tancred »

Because of all the panic buying, I'm forced to shoot whatever I have available right now in the upcoming matches. I've got really good results with my CZ 452 and CCI Subsonic at 40m (not sure if it will hold up at 100m). Until sanity comes back to ammo buying, I'll be using CCI or Federal Champion. Just want to know if there's anything I should be concerned about given how tight CCI is in the chamber.
GregG
AA Poster
AA Poster
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:15 pm

Re: Hard to close bolt on CCI

Post by GregG »

CCI has a "thick" rim and does make closing the bolt harder than other ammo. But one thing to keep in mind CCI ammo is made in two plants: CCI and Federal. Each plant uses their components.

I actually prefer the Federal version of CCI standard better, it seems to have a slightly thinner rim. You can tell the difference between the two by the first letter of the lot number. As I remember CCI starts with a number, and federal starts with a letter. I could have it backwards.
lone ringer
Master Poster
Master Poster
Posts: 1082
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 9:33 am
Location: CA

Re: Hard to close bolt on CCI

Post by lone ringer »

Tancred wrote:Because of all the panic buying, I'm forced to shoot whatever I have available right now in the upcoming matches. I've got really good results with my CZ 452 and CCI Subsonic at 40m (not sure if it will hold up at 100m). Until sanity comes back to ammo buying, I'll be using CCI or Federal Champion. Just want to know if there's anything I should be concerned about given how tight CCI is in the chamber.
What you should know is that the metal in most .22s is not hardened and depending on how hard it is to close the bolt in you rifle there is a possibility for damage even if the parts involved are well lubricated.
GregG
AA Poster
AA Poster
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:15 pm

Re: Hard to close bolt on CCI

Post by GregG »

I find the fact listed in the previous post a little hard to believe. First most 22 ammo manufactured in the states is certainly at a lower standard than from any European manufacture.

All 22 ammo varies in rim thickness and what is being suggested is manufactures are knowingly selling firearms in the US market that will break because of ammunition. While not maybe not harden in a true sense, I cannot believe the steel used would in any way wear out / break with US made ammunition.
User avatar
Jason
Uber Master Poster
Uber Master Poster
Posts: 3002
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:36 pm
Location: Snohomish, WA

Re: Hard to close bolt on CCI

Post by Jason »

Lone Ringer tells the truth. Most metal in 22LR firearms is fairly soft around the chamber/breech compared to some other parts of the rifle. That's why there is such a thing as the "chamber iron" to move the metal on the breech back into place after it gets peened by dry firing.

TOM MENCK - .22 CHAMBER IRONING TOOL
http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools ... px?ttver=2

Image

I finally had to buy one of those after dealing with a few rimfire chambers that had been peened to the point of not being able to extra brass well. If there's not enough room for the rim between the chamber/breech and the bolt fact, the leverage of that cam action of closing the bolt is going to eventually make some metal somewhere move to accommodate the difference in dimensions.
GregG
AA Poster
AA Poster
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:15 pm

Re: Hard to close bolt on CCI

Post by GregG »

True enough but chambers are cut even on high power rifles with tool steel. The point trying to be made was if the bolt is hard to close on 22 ammo the gun will break. I do not believe this.

As for the chamber iron this is usually done because you dry fired on an empty chamber with a firearm which does not restrict the firing pin.

I see you point of the chamber iron a different topic.
User avatar
Jason
Uber Master Poster
Uber Master Poster
Posts: 3002
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:36 pm
Location: Snohomish, WA

Re: Hard to close bolt on CCI

Post by Jason »

I don't think he said "break" anywhere. Any metal that is displaced is "damage" as mentioned above. Repeatedly driving even brass cases into the rim area of the chamber that does not have enough space to accommodate the rim will eventually displace metal, although only very slightly. This makes that area hold ammo with thinner rims slightly less precisely in the future. For clarity's sake, this should only happen on barrels, whether factory or aftermarket, with chambers with less space for the rims than sporter/hunting guns usually have. The only non-match barrels that I have seen this on are CZs, and their smaller chamber/bore dimensions are a major factor in their above average accuracy for their price range.
lone ringer
Master Poster
Master Poster
Posts: 1082
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 9:33 am
Location: CA

Re: Hard to close bolt on CCI

Post by lone ringer »

Karl Kenyon one of the most famous gunsmith/prone shooter ever known used to harden the bolts on Anschutz rifles when replacing barrels and chambering them with very tight match chambers and he did so that the bolt would not be damaged from forcing the bullets so that they would engrave the rifling.
Here we are talking about CCI bullets that are way more over sized than match bullets. What I am suggesting is not to force the bolt on any rifle if ammo is TOO HARD to chamber. I know TOO HARD can be subjective but if a normal person can't close the bolt without applying excessive force to chamber a round in my opinion that is TOO HARD and should not be done.
Tancred
B Poster
B Poster
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:42 am
Location: Sweet Home...

Re: Hard to close bolt on CCI

Post by Tancred »

Exactly the information I was looking for. Thanks.
atomicbrh
Master Poster
Master Poster
Posts: 1293
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:24 pm
Location: Rural Mississippi

Re: Hard to close bolt on CCI

Post by atomicbrh »

I have always wondered. With this situation; (thicker than normal rim and/or tight head space or any other factor that makes it difficult to close the bolt) do we need to be concerned with not only bolt face compression but locking lug wear or compression of material in the receiver locking lug recess?

Bobby
steve b.
A Poster
A Poster
Posts: 216
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:15 pm

Re: Hard to close bolt on CCI

Post by steve b. »

Howdy all,

A few things: As in another thread, it's not the case rim, it's the location of the driving band on the ojive. CCI SV & Green tag ammo has a driving band that sits much further out, making it hard to chamber in a match rifle.

If you pull the bullet from a round of Eley and CCI, you will find that the empty cases fit just fine in the chamber. It's where the bullet sits - thats the problem.

As for lugs, Anschutz only surface hardens their lugs, and this is very easy to polish / gring through. I see people try to make things smoother in their rifle with a Dremel, by working on the lugs, and they are only screwing up their rifle.

If you are using regular match ammo that does not require a bunch of force to close the bolt, you'll be fine from any problems. If you try to jam rounds like the Stinger and Velocitor, or any other ill fitting round in the chamber, you could cause a problem down the road. It's rare, but I could see it happening.

As far as tghe bolt touching the breech face, that is not supposto happen. They may kiss lightly, but if there is pressure from the two making contact, you have a problem. To check this, you need the firing pin and springs out of the bolt.

Finally, do not overlook the importance of proper grease lubrication on the lugs. There are a number of good choices, just pick one and make sure you put a little bit on the lugs of the bolt and save yourself from any galling issues (unlikely due to the metal type, but still worth watching).

s.
cedestech
Distinguished Master Poster w/Palms
Distinguished Master Poster w/Palms
Posts: 2324
Joined: Sun May 08, 2011 3:06 pm

Re: Hard to close bolt on CCI

Post by cedestech »

Little late to this conversation but I can assure you that unless the head spacing for the bolt is entirely too tight, the problem with chambering CCI SV is
the front driving band. I will try to post pic's in the next day or so of a round chambered in a factory Anshcutz chamber and one in a special "Evelio" chamber.

The Evelio chamber effectivly shmeers the front band off the round. It basicly is trying to lop off the first band. If you chamber Eley or SK, you can't eject a unfired round but once you tap it out you can see the ring lands engraved into the front drive bands of the rounds very effectivly.

Aguila Extra is the same way, will not chamber.

In a factory Anshutz match chamber it will engrave all three rounds and eject them unfired but just not as deep.

I'll get some pics of rounds out of both.
Emmett Dibble, Houston, Texas. Where's my buddy Jason? Keeper of electronic records and banisher of little pieces of paper?
Post Reply