Barnes now (recently) makes "Match Burner" bullets. They are said to be engineered for the caliber ...whatever that means. They make a 171 gr 7mm and a 140 gr 6.5...perhaps they are the holy grail...the sine qua non of ballistics...the ayatollah of rock n' rolla

Well hell Snake take a file to em, then mash acouple of them, then let us know how there gonna work out!

Well Jimbo...i would but it ain't my thing. i prefer to shoot them at things that go clang. But I'll bet there are some basement dwellers out there that are warming up their hammers, files and contraptions just to prove some kin=d of point about the smasho-dynamics of these new pills

Picked up a box of these yesterday at the Sportsman Warehouse, gonna give them a try. 7-8-12, shot these bullets in todays match. Was impressed with the accuracy and they hit hard. Just one match, but would give these a go. The price was about 28.00 out the door. They were cheaper at Brunos, but didn't have the time to go there.

Snake wrote:...the ayatollah of rock n' rolla

Thank you, Gunny Highway.

McAlice, You posted that these aren't the magic pill! Then please explain why using the same load I have rang rams with 142 Sierras and 139 Lapua's, but none with these? By the way, none of mine were filed or mashed, just taken to the range and shot.

OK,OK... they are fu####g magic. Happy now?? Those Noslers are nothing better than the Sierra and Lapua paper punching slugs you have used. Sooner or later you will start ringing rams galore just like Oneil and wished you had stayed with a 7-08.

Bob Mc Alice wrote:OK,OK... they are fu####g magic. Happy now?? Those Noslers are nothing better than the Sierra and Lapua paper punching slugs you have used. Sooner or later you will start ringing rams galore just like Oneil and wished you had stayed with a 7-08.

Not Nosler Bob, the magic bullets are Barnes "Match Burner" bullets and you would be happy to know that they also make a 171gr 7mm magic bullet for your rifles and the price is not much different than the major bullet makers.

OOPS....your right Tony. I meant to say Barnes. Barnes Match Burner Magic Ram Busting Bullets. Maybe I will pick up a box of 7mm magic bullets at my next visit to Sportsmans Warehouse. I bet they keep them locked up in a special box in the back room.

Beckley, send me one for sectioning and one to Dan for smashing. Let us see how they compare to known "tough" bullets. Magic my ass.

Bob Mc Alice wrote:OOPS....your right Tony. I meant to say Barnes. Barnes Match Burner Magic Ram Busting Bullets. Maybe I will pick up a box of 7mm magic bullets at my next visit to Sportsmans Warehouse. I bet they keep them locked up in a special box in the back room.

Beckley, send me one for sectioning and one to Dan for smashing. Let us see how they compare to known "tough" bullets. Magic my ass.

Bob,

I spoke with one of the Barnes people (about the 140 gr 6.5mm) and he said the jacket is about 0.025" thick in the boat tail. The core is unalloyed (pure) lead, as is common practice for match bullets. Though I did not get an exact dimension on the jacket thickness forward from the boat tail area, it is tapered and you can probably get a fair idea by looking at the hollow point (meplat). I have yet to see one of the bullets, but I was told it is fairly small. I don't remember the exact dimension which was mentioned just now. (A small hollow point makes a worthwhile contribution to a good BC.)

I don't have the jacket thickness dimensions of the 133gr 6.5mm Norma bullet at hand, but it was appreciably thicker than a MK as would be the figures I was given for the Barnes bullet. My belief is that a thicker jacket makes for a "tougher" bullet.

Many of us believe that Bob Cauteruccio's fine 6.5mm bullets perform well on the rams because he starts with a 7mm jacket and brings it down to 6.5mm which makes it a bit thicker. His bullets also have a small hollow point and offers a "closed point" bullet. The jury is still out on the closed point bullet, but there does not appear to be any particular difference between it and the same bullet with a conventional match hollow point in terms of ram performance.

It would be interesting to see how the Barnes bullets stand up on Dan's smasher.

It was good seeing you in Missouri. If you keep talking about it, it will no longer be the best kept secret in silhouette!

Thanks to Snake, Pat and the crew for putting on such a fine match.

Rick

I am with you Rick, let see one cut open and one smashed. It'l fold like a cheap suit. The Barnes info says it was made for the long range paper punching crowd and sniper wanna be types.There would be no point to making it more expensive then selling it cheaper than the competition.


JB asks :Then please explain why using the same load I have rang rams with 142 Sierras and 139 Lapua's

Short answer: WRONG diameter.

In Missouri there has to be a law on the books about guys pulling splinters out of eachothers rear, also there has to be a law on the books about Grandma and Grandpa making out in public.

RBriscoe wrote: Many of us believe that Bob Cauteruccio's fine 6.5mm bullets perform well on the rams is because he starts with a 7mm jacket and brings it down to 6.5mm which makes it a bit thicker.

I've seen this stated before but I can't say that I buy it. If you take a 7mm "cup" and swage it down to a smaller diameter you will make it longer and THINNER, not thicker. To make the jacket a smaller diameter it has to go through a set of dies that consists of a plunger forcing the jacket through a smaller hole. This will make the jacket longer, smaller in diameter… and either the same thickness or thinner.

Maybe someone can change my mind but this is how I see it.

I didn't lose any Rams in St. Louis with my 6.5mm 140gr Hornady SST bullets. A couple fell slow but all went. Granted that was only 13 rams though. (I only shoot 6.5 in my Standard rifle). I really wish that we could have more practice time with actual targets at this match rather than shooting swingers. Perfect scenario would be if the range was open all day on Friday and we could set our own targets.

Come on Bob............... You know they are MFBs.

Trent wrote:

RBriscoe wrote: Many of us believe that Bob Cauteruccio's fine 6.5mm bullets perform well on the rams is because he starts with a 7mm jacket and brings it down to 6.5mm which makes it a bit thicker.

I've seen this stated before but I can't say that I buy it. If you take a 7mm "cup" and swage it down to a smaller diameter you will make it longer and THINNER, not thicker. To make the jacket a smaller diameter it has to go through a set of dies that consists of a plunger forcing the jacket through a smaller hole. This will make the jacket longer, smaller in diameter… and either the same thickness or thinner.

Maybe someone can change my mind but this is how I see it.

I didn't lose any Rams in St. Louis with my 6.5mm 140gr Hornady SST bullets. A couple fell slow but all went. Granted that was only 13 rams though. (I only shoot 6.5 in my Standard rifle). I really wish that we could have more practice time with actual targets at this match rather than shooting swingers. Perfect scenario would be if the range was open all day on Friday and we could set our own targets.

Trent,

The problem with the range being open all day is that a club member/RSO would have to be present all day and there are only a few members who run the match. They are busy with a number of things. The range was open at roughly 1 PM. The purpose is sightin and practice rather than load development. While it is true that a number of the Missouri shooters prefer 7mm over 6.5 a number of people have done well with 6.5s and a number of people have had ringers. Not to drag any of them into the discussion, but you probably heard from both sides at the match.

A simple demo will illustrate the jacket thickness. Take a factory 7-08 case and neck it down to 6.5. Do before and after measurements. If still in doubt, take a factory .243 Win case and do the same thing necking it up to 6.5. Order some of Bob's bullets and see for yourself. Please note, however, that the gentleman makes no claims one way or the other about the bullet's performance on rams. He can relate feedback he has received from customers.

As to whether a thicker jacket makes a stronger bullet, draw your own conclusions. It would be easy to say that any materials book would say that is the case, but whether it makes an actual difference in terminal performance on rams is, to my knowledge, undocumented. Dan has run a number of bullets through his "smasher". You might pose the question to him.

As for me, I simply say that I believe that a thicker jacket helps. That is just my opinion, nothing more.

Cheers