Went to the range today to try out some 140gr AMAX's, wasn't to impressed with the accuracy. On the box it stated they were supposed to be used with a 7.5 twist, I have a 8 twist, don't know how much difference it would make. I thought that my barrel was pretty close to being gone, but I had some Lapua 139's with me and they grouped ok. Has anyone else tried these?.

Hi Jim.... many of my old customers had the same problem as you with the 140 gr. A-Max bullets. The Shilen Select Match 1 in 8 twist barrels that I would typically put on the very few HP rifles I made, just performed poorly.

My own personel rifles would not shoot them very well even off the bench while testing. The Masters up here in Washington, most all of them tend to spend the extra few bucks and do a group buy on the Bob C. precision hand crafted VLD 141 gr. 6.5 mm projectiles from San Francisco.

I'm just guessing, because of my limited knowledge on the subject, that a 7.5 twist will not make one bit of difference in the flight characteristics of the 140 A-Max bullets. But, one of my best customers is now standing right behind me and he just loves the Norma 6.5 mm 130 gr. black diamond bullets and he has had tremendous results with his knockdown ratio / accuracy and improved scores.

Take this for what it is worth.

Hi Jim
The solution is the normal one you need MORE POWDER

I am not sure how to read the lot numbers on Hornadys boxes. I have two boxes of these bullets and both have the same product number on them but different lot numbers and different kind of boxes.
The first or earliest is in a white and red box and here is the big thing the bullets are 1.515 inchel long and a note in the box says to use 7.5 a twist barrel. I remember trying these in my 8 twist guns and they didn't shoot very good. The only thing I have with a 7.5 twist barrel is my sweed mauser and I have never tried them in that rifle.
The second box is mainly red and on the end of the box it says 7.5 twist and the bullets are 1.375 inches long and are the newer variety and should work in a 8 twist rifle. I have shot these but they just weren't quite as good as the sierra 142.
I am thinking they grouped around 8 to 10 inches on the ram vs 3 to 4 with the sierra. I havn't messed with them much so they may need some fine tuning. and more powder..
below are the lengths of some of the 6.5 bullets I have
Take care and Merry Chistmas
Chad


sierra 107 1.220
sierra 120 1.180
sierra 140 1.315
sierra 142 1.380
sierra 155 1.450
JLK 140 1.405
Carterucio 130 1.290
Carterucio 142 1.375
Hornady 140 a-max 1.515 and 1.375

I was shooting at a ram gong at 500m, holding center the rounds (20) all impacted 3-4 min right of center (wind about a minute right to left) all over up and down. Thought maybe I'd play around with seating depth, but maybe not.

Jim Beckley wrote:I was shooting at a ram gong at 500m, holding center the rounds (20) all impacted 3-4 min right of center (wind about a minute right to left) all over up and down. Thought maybe I'd play around with seating depth, but maybe not.

What was your load Jim? For what ever reason Hornady likes to change designs on bullets and then tell us that that the new one is better but our rifles tell a different story. In the 80's and 90's when I used mostly 7mm rifles in 7-08 and 7 IHMSA I liked to use the 162gr 7mm bullets for rams specially the A Max with the aluminum tip but after I shot 500 of them and ordered 1000 more they came in with the red plastic tips. I complained and they told me the ones with the red tips were more accurate but none of my rifles liked them as well as the silver tipped ones so I sold them and went back to using Sierra bullets. Another thing is that I would notice the difference of the bullets from the same weight (162gr) that were made at different times. I never had the problem with Sierras when I was shooting their 30gr 168 Match bullets for several years in the 70's and 80's or 7MM bullets in the 90's and have never had any problem in the accuracy department with Lapua bullets.

The red plastic tips on the A Max bullets tend to get brittle and break if you keep the bullets very long. It happened to me at a AZ state match years ago shooting my hunting rifle using 6.5 140's Hornady A Max bullets that had been molly coated. I am not certain how old the bullets were because I bought them from another shooter but the end result is that a large percentage of them were not longer reliable because the tips had gotten brittle, would break in flight and would miss rams by several inches mostly by going between the legs, the worst was when a plastic tip broke inside the rifle and got jammed between the bolt and the locking lugs.

Tony, The load was 36.0gr of Varget, which is about max in my rifle. Sierra 142's are great in my gun as far as accuracy, but seem to ring more rams with them, 139 Lapuas are about the same in the accuracy department as the Sierra's, but seem to ding less rams with them, kinda looking for a bullet that I'll loose less rams with than those two.

Jim Beckley wrote:Tony, The load was 36.0gr of Varget, which is about max in my rifle. Sierra 142's are great in my gun as far as accuracy, but seem to ring more rams with them, 139 Lapuas are about the same in the accuracy department as the Sierra's, but seem to ding less rams with them, kinda looking for a bullet that I'll loose less rams with than those two.

Jim, if you have a 260 I would recommend you go to a slower burning powder like VV 150, 4350 or R15 and work up to a max load with 139, 144 Lapua or other heavy 6.5 bullet, 41 gr of H4350 and a heavy bullet is a good ram load, my bullets are molly coated so start one or two grains lower and work up to what you are comfortable with, another think is if you develop a good ram load in the winter it may be too hot in warmer weather so be careful. Some people do not think that the 144gr Lapua bullets are very accurate but they are good enough if you do your part, Agustin and I use them all the time. Also I do not have to tell you that the best hits are usually the ones that ring the rams so its always good to try to hit them on one side or the other if you are holding good and can place your shots but if you are like me now a days I am lucky to be able to hold inside the targets and break the shot at the same time. At Phoenix and other places where they use rails for stands I like to up my ram dope by 2.5 minutes and I hold the dot on the rail (makes my aiming point smaller).

Jim,

I've been using some moly-coated Hornady 140 gr. 6.5 mm A-Max bullets in my .260 Tikka rifle, using Winchester brass, Federal 210M primers and 41.4 grains of H4350 as my ram load with good results. I seat the bullets so they touch the rifling. The bullets were chronographed at 2670 fps muzzle velocity out of the 24" barrel. To date, all my shots have gone where called, and I've only left one hit ram standing, in Phoenix. The bullet hit in the center of the shoulder and, according to Jim H., who was spotting for me, the ram moved a little bit but stayed up.

Like Tony recommended, a load of 41+ grains of H4350 pushing these bullets should do the trick. Give it a try!

Later!

I will just add this little tidbit, as I am a 6.5 newbie... the 140 AMAX is a highly regarded projectile over on SnipersHide amongst the 6.5mm crowd. They are a pretty discerning group of guys over there and they are punching these little buggers out quite a lot further than our little Rams. 1760 yards (mile) is a pretty common goal over there. Makes our 547yards to our Rams seem like a stones distance. The 140 AMAX can deliver.

Also, guys over there are using them successfully (at the mile mark) with as much as 8.75 twist barrels.

Probably an accident but I shot a group one morning before the match at rams with my 6.5 IHMSA/A-Max's that measured 3/4".
I have a theory about the plastic tipped A-Max bullet that is based on purely anecdotal evidence, in marginal calibers they seem to knock rams down better. The reason I believe this to be is that when bullet is coming in at a high angle the tip breaks off on impact exposing what is essentally a large hollow point, this hollow point is much less likely to "skid" across the target than say the Sierra MK bullet which I have actually found laying on the ground in front of the targets. The Sierra's have a skid mark on them and are bent like a banana but totally intact, yes I'm the guy wandering around down at rams that looks like he dropped something on the ground and can't find it!
One final thought, back before Hornady discontinued them the aluminum tipped 7mm 162 was the creme de le creme of ram bullets, they fell like they were hit with a 16lb sledge when fired from a 7-08. They worked pretty darn good in the 6.5/140 size as well. I still have a few of those loaded in cartridges on my wall.
Kb

Kev........ If the goo roo is around with his rubber glove, you better watch out what position you take while looking around.

Ladies and Gents,

I've been launching 140-gr, 6.5mm, A-Max bullets for about 12 years now. The three rifles that have used them all sported 8-twist barrels. Accuracy has been excellent in all three rifles: a 6.5 TCU, 6.5-08 Hunter and 6.5-284 long-range, prone rifle used for Palma matches.

After running some numbers for bullet stability when 8-twist rifles are used, it was found that when launched above 2,200 fps the bullet's Stability Factor is 1.5 or higher. An SF of 1.5 is what most consider optimum. The lowest MV load was out of the 6.5mm TCU, a CPT load that launched the bullets to 2,250 fps. The highest MV load was out of the long-range 6.5-284 at 3,085 fps.

The Krieger-barreled 6.5-284 shot the A-Max more accurately than any bullet tried during load testing. I did not try any other bullets out of the 6.5 TCU because the reamer was designed for that bullet and Lapua brass. Both the ram and CPT loads were very accurate.

All that being said, my A-Max bullets are about 12 years old. Midway had a special on them when purchased in 10-box sleeves back then. I grabbed 2,000 bullets at the great price they were offered at, something like $150 per sleeve.

OK, just remeasured the 6.5-284, match-load's group, 0.135 MOA for 5 shots at 100 yards off-the-bench. That load performed exceedingly well at 800, 900 and 1,000 yards. I'd of rather shot the bullet a bit slower for longer barrel life, but the test targets told me what load to use.

I would add that I believe Hornady bullets in some rifles are more accurate because of the secant ogive relationship with the rifling throat angle and relative wear of the throat.

Jim,

If you are still having problems getting the Hornady 140 grain A-Max bullets to shoot precisely, try experimenting with seating depth. If found that Sierra 142 grain bullets produce better groups out of my Hunter Silhouette rifle when seated 0.020" from contact with the rifling. All my other .260 rifles prefer the bullets seated +0.010" into the rifling, whether Berger, Sierra or Hornady A-Max. I THAT still does not work for you, make me a deal on the rest of the bullets and I will gladly take them.

Regards,