Anyone shooting cast loads for CLA? Looking for some loads for my win94

J~

Hi JBolt

I use 28.1 grs of IMR 3031 with 170 gr Laser Cast GC bullets in my Wincheser 94 for CLA

13.5g 4227 behind a 180g rcbs 30 cal flat nose gas checked projectile. It was good enough to win at raton a few years ago

Dave

the ex pom wrote:13.5g 4227 behind a 180g rcbs 30 cal flat nose gas checked projectile. It was good enough to win at raton a few years ago

Dave

We missed you at Raton this year Dave... I even brought plenty of pink paraphernalia as trading goodies. Had to lift a glass with your team mate you left at Colfax instead. See you next year?



-Tim

Ken - I haven't tried the laser cast bullets since I cast my own but thanks for the info.

Dave - are you using the same load across the course? Is any filler required with the 4227? I have heard good things about the RCBS 180 in the 30-30 so I guess I'll have to get a mold now.

J~

26gr Varget under a 170gr Lyman 311041 works for me...

jbolt,
Do you have any 30 caliber molds currently? The ex pom load shoots well ....... but on some ranges where the rams are placed full footed by the target setters, you will loose rams. (The ram stands at Raton have "stops" on the rails so the rams are offset the way they are supposed to be.)

On the ranges I have shot on, one is up to the mercy of the target setters. Therefore, I like 36/H414 for 2100 f.p.s. with very good accuracy as insurance against hard set rams......

w30wcf

w30wcf wrote:jbolt,
Do you have any 30 caliber molds currently? The ex pom load shoots well ....... but on some ranges where the rams are placed full footed by the target setters, you will loose rams. (The ram stands at Raton have "stops" on the rails so the rams are offset the way they are supposed to be.)

On the ranges I have shot on, one is up to the mercy of the target setters. Therefore, I like 36/H414 for 2100 f.p.s. with very good accuracy as insurance against hard set rams......

w30wcf

The only 30 cal molds I currently have are 311672 and 311284. The 311672 cast about 165g with range lead and shoot extremely well up to 1600fps. Any faster and the accuracy begins to suffer. I'm not sure if the 311672 is okay for a tube feeding. Would not be enough momentum for rams at 200. The 311284 I single load when lobbing lead pills at the 500 meter rams.

J~

jbolt,
The 311672 is a ok for use in the magazine. If you lay two 30-30 cartridges nose to rim you will see that the bullet nose does not rest directly on the primer. That's the way they stack up in the magazine.

Regarding the loss of accuracy at 1600 f.p.s. (1,600 f.p.s. is fine for the 1st three distances), the possible reason is that the nose ride portion of the bullet is not a tight fit in the bore.....and / or the bhn is not at least 14.... If you place the nose of the bullet into the muzzle, is there any resistance? What alloy are you using?

I also like the 311284 bullet for long distance shooting as well also at the Rams and Homer, the steel buffalo at 1,000 yards.
To feed from the magazine, it can be seated to be crimped over the front driving band over a capacity load of 34/H414.
The nose does have to be flattened (machined or filed) a bit to get the oal to 2.550".



The 220 gr. bullet could be seated deeper (not flat pointed) over a lesser charge of H414, but then should be single loaded into the magazine.

w30wcf

w30wcf wrote:jbolt,

Regarding the loss of accuracy at 1600 f.p.s. (1,600 f.p.s. is fine for the 1st three distances), the possible reason is that the nose ride portion of the bullet is not a tight fit in the bore.....and / or the bhn is not at least 14.... If you place the nose of the bullet into the muzzle, is there any resistance? What alloy are you using?


The 220 gr. bullet could be seated deeper (not flat pointed) over a lesser charge of H414, but then should be single loaded into the magazine.

w30wcf

There is some resistance pushing the nose of the bullet in the bore. As for alloys, I'm casting range lead, heat treated it tempers to about 20 bhn.

Have you seen any loss of accuracy flattening the 220's? Why set them deep if your going to single load?

J~

jbolt,
Sounds like the bullet is a good fit in the barrel and at 20 bhn, the alloy is certainly hard enough.
Here's a few things to try....you may be doing some of them already:
1.) Size to at least .310.... .311 would be better if your barrel slugs .309-.310" (If the bullet is not that large, at least the gas check will be.)
2.)reject any bullets that have any flaws
3.)weigh the bullets and shoot the ones that are witin .5 grs of the heaviest
4.)preseat the gas checks using a lubrisizer by locking the ejector pin in place using the Lyman gas check seater (especially important if they are a tight fit going on - in that case anneal them)
5.)use slower burning powders - 4198 being the fastest
6.)use lube compatable with higher velocities

Regarding the 311284, I have not noted any decrease in accuracy with the flat pointed version. The reason for te deep seated, flat pointed 220 gr bullet is so that it will feed fine through the magazine.

w30wcf

w30wcf,

I'm doing most of what you suggest. My barrel slugged at .3095. The bullets cast about .310 but I run them through a .311 die to seat the CG. Today I shimmed the mold so I'll see if a little larger dia. bullet makes a difference. So far I've found that plain liquid Alox produces the best accuracy in my 94. Not sure if that's considered a high velocity lube or not.

J~

Did some load testing and here's what I have so far;

All bullets weight matched w/gas checks, seated to load from the magazine, crimped and liquid Alox lube

160g 311672, 18.0g 5744, 1600fps,1.5 MOA

180g RCBS 30-180 SP (Midsouth sent me the wrong mold), 13.5g 4227, 6-8 MOA YIKES!

180g RCBS 30-180 SP, 36.0g H414, 1 MOA (this will be my ram load)

220g 311284 w/flattened tip, 34.0g H414, 4 MOA (same bullet seated long, no crimp, for single loading over 33.0g of 4350 shoots 2 MOA or better)

Not sure why the light load of 4227 shoots so poorly in my rifle. With such a small charge does the position of the powder in the case affect accuracy? Should I be using a filler?

J~

jbolt. I tried IMR4227 in my 30/30 and I did not like it. I shot it over a crony and when I changed the load as much as 3.0 gns. there was no difference. velocitys were all over the place. The load was accurate but not anything I will use again. I was using copper bullets so that may have had a lot to do with it. I have since swithed to 748 or H322. I got the IMR 4227 load data from a lyman book. the only one that listed that powder for 30/30.

AD9, I like the idea of being able to use a dusting of powder but this is the least amount of powder I have ever tried to use. I wonder if the position of powder in the case makes a difference. I've never used fillers so I'm not sure how that works. Being that several people are using this load with success I should at least get a little better result. For a plain Jane win94 it shoots really good so I should be able to make something work with that powder.

J~