What method do you use to get sighted in before the match? Off hand like your going to be shooting or off the bench? I see guys do both. My thought is that the bench doesn't seem to produce the same results as the match's off hand shooting and I have to make adjustments during the string. I was just wonder what everyone else thought?

I sight in from the bench. I have heard of guys sighting in off hand, but only in pistol, haven't heard of it in Rifle. It kinda makes sense in the pistol because of how much more the trigger squeeze (even a propper one) will affect the POI. But in the rifle, trigger squeeze, theoretically, shouldn't throw your poi off.

I use the bench for checking zeros when I am travelling, then from the standing position to get the fine tune adjustments for lighting and angle of the targets.

Mary

I "bench zero" for all four animals to get on target and know my adjustments for that particular range, as some ranges have targets that are a meter or two off. Then I shoot offhand to make the fine adjustments, as Mary mentioned, and warm up. I usually shoot 1/2 minute higher offhand than I do off the bench due to difference in form.

Assuming you have a good bench tenique and place your bag about where you support your rifle and hold it about the same, you should have the same point of impact on the bench as you do off-hand. You should verify your chicken zero at bare minimum. I doo need to shoot a few shots off-hand prior to the match to verify my trigger jerk.

I do the same thing, check zeros from bench then shoot some offhand to verify weather of not i can hit the targets or not more often than not its a no

This question seems to come up again and again. Every time it does I get the same uneasy feeling reading the answers. That is, most of the time the majority of the answers clearly point to the fact that sighting in off the bench is the only reliable way of establishing zeros. The trouble is the follow on clarifications. They usually revolve around "fine tuning" by firing offhand. To me the phrase "fine tuning" connotes a degree of accuracy and certainty that is higher than it was before. If this is the case, it seems to beg the question: why not sight in offhand and fine tune off the bench? I know I will hear all of the reasons why shooting off the bench and offhand results in supposedly different zeros (please re-read Jerry G.'s response to this question above). If you believe all of these reasons, and your hold is so good that you can establish that there is a difference, why not just sight in offhand????

I post this question because of the "uneasy" feeling I refer to above. I just know that when I sight in off the bench the sight picture is rock steady and the 2 second follow thru is perfect. When I stand up and shoot, even with a hold that stays within the animal I can never be 100% sure that the impact position of the shot is exactly what my sight picture was when the sear released (let alone when the bullet left the end of the barrel). Given this fact, after reading these "fine tuning (adustments)" suggestions I get this "uneasy" feeling that I am missing something? Am I???

Jim,
Despite all the 'positioning' from the bench, nearly all the time (unless your standing position is identical in height and angle to the target) your position offhand is going to be different. Especially with regard to cheek weld and angle to the target. Yes I tend to sight in offhand, if I know where the basic zeros are. When I travel with a gun/scope there are many things that can happen, as well as the details of different environmental conditions on various ranges, thus I use the bench to
1) verify no serious damage has been caused to rifle, ammo, or scope in transportation
2) see how the ammo and equipment is responding to the changes in environment (tempature, humididity, elevation, etc.)
3) familiarize myself with the range, and allow for watching conditions (wind patterns, mirage, etc.)

Hope this clarifies some of your unease...

Mary

Jim, the reason I sight in from the bench first is to find out how much to come up between targets and once that is established I shoot off-hand, very seldom do I find any difference between the two. What I have found out is that my sight setting numbers may vary from month to month if only by a couple of clicks shooting the same rifle and ammo so when ever possible I make sure my sight settings are still good at whatever particular place I may be shooting. If the opportunity presents itself for example at large matches like the Nationals I like to get there ahead of time to shoot from the bench at different times of the day to learn how temperature affects my bullets flight. I do all this because I do not think that me or anybody else is more stable than a bench and saves me ammo in the long run.

Tony,

One again, you provide me with information that I find to always be thoughtful, well reasoned and spot on! Thanks for your feedback.

Mary,

Not so much. I still don't understand your rationale. While I totally agree with the 3 issues you set forth, I can not understand why you could not accomplish the same goals by shooting offhand instead of from the bench. Of course, this is entirely predicated on the fact that you can hold just as tight offhand as you can from a bench or you can call all of your shots within a fraction of an inch at all distances. So far in my short stint in silhouette shooting I have not found anyone who can claim either of the those abilities. I suspect if there are such individuals out there we have a new game to be played. Not trying to be and a--hole (or a bigger one) but I am still "uneasy."

I can establish a good zero off the bench within five shots easily, because I'm much steadier off the bench than offhand, especially using my leftover gear from benchrest competitions. It usually takes me 10 to 15 shots to adjust my chicken zero offhand from my bench zero, and those shots taken longer for each shot than the bench shots. That let's me get much more precise changes between animals off the bench and then adjust for the point of impact difference between the bench and offhand. It would take too much time for me to get all of my adjustments offhand. This tactic isn't original to me, but has taken me well into master class so I think I'll stick with it. I do know people who can get all of their settings offhand, but I'm not quite that steady yet on most days. There are a select few days that I'm really on and have, though.

As I have said before, I usually shoot half a minute higher offhand than off the bench, even when I try to duplicate my offhand hold on the bench, with the front rest under the foreend just in front of the triggerguard and squeezing the rifle into my should the same as I do offhand. The body angle, and therefore, the rifle's movement during even the slight recoil is different, though.

Thanks for the input folks.

I can shoot very well from the bench, but was placing it on the stock fore end vs. where I place by hand when I shoot off hand. That spot is dead flat in front of the trigger.

I think if I put the flat pistol attachment on my bench rest and place the flat part of the stock on it, I'm guessing, It will get better zero's because it will more accurately reflect how I normally shoot off hand.

Jim,
I can think of one individual immediately that shoots better from the offhand than from the bench and that is Jerry Tureau. Unlike Tiny, my bench zeros tend to vary as much as 8 clicks from my offhand zeros. YMMV.

Mary

Jason said:

It usually takes me 10 to 15 shots to adjust my chicken zero offhand from my bench zero, and those shots taken longer for each shot than the bench shots.

Jason, for the life of me I can't understand what would transpire in these 10 to 15 shots, could you please explain in detail? Does this happen every match?

Do I understand that after you get your chicken zero you then go back to the bench for pigs and get a bench zero then "fine tune" that zero offhand, then go back to the bench for turkeys then "fine tune" that zero offhand, etc, etc? What happens when it is windy?

Could you describe what you hold looks like in the scope off the bench versus offhand? For example "my hold is rock steady off the bench and offhand does not deviate more than a quarter of an inch from my bench hold."

I suspect you use paper targets to get you zeros? If not how do you determine your hits on the 10 to 15 shots you take?

Jim

Sure.. my sight-in routine is pretty simple. I usually sight in off the bench at all of the targets in turn, starting with the chickens. Using the front and rear rests, I don't have to take a few seconds to get the sight picture correct like when I'm shooting offhand so it goes pretty quickly. Then I have a fairly close zero at chickens and have rock solid adjustments for that lighting in those conditions at that range that day. Either after I bench zero at chickens and before I bench zero at pigs or after I bench zero all the animals, I shoot several shots offhand at chickens to confirm where the rifle is actually hitting offhand compared to the bench. It's almost always one or two clicks (1/4 clicks on my T24) higher offhand, but sometimes it's dead on or I'm not holding and following through well enough to call such a small deviance. I vary my hold occasionally trying new tweaks here and there to try to get from middle-of-the-pack master to the upper end of the master shooters, so those tweaks can affect point of impact very slightly. This confirmation of zero offhand also gets me warmed up for the match.